Do I have to fill it out ?

George_Michael

macfly wrote: »

The seller is being objectionable, so be objectionable back. But let's be clear, that makes you both on the same level.

It depends on how you define objectionable.

The seller attempted to defraud the OP of over £100 by refusing to refund them when they didn't receive the goods that they paid for, then ensured that the paypal dispute took as long as possible.
IMO, that is not someone simply being objectionable. That is someone acting in a criminal manner and attempting to evade their legal responsibilities.

They are now expecting the OP to do them a favour by helping them to recover their money from Royal mail.

So our moral choices change depending on who, or the attitude of, the person in front of us is.

Yes, and this is the case for most people, and I bet if you were honest, it would be the same for you.
If you saw a homeless and hungry person on the street and they came up to you and demanded money from you, would you give them anything?
Would your response be any different however if they came up to you, explained that they were hungry and homeless and asked politely for some money?

macfly

There's no suggestion of fraud here, how would that be possible? In fact, read it again, there's no clear report of what the seller has said - just rude and abusive.
You are not doing anyone a "favour" by filling in a claim form. RM are acting on a claim originated by the OP that an item has gone missing. They are the ones who will lose money, so they are clearly entitled to confirmation.
Your last point? Clever boy suggesting if I disagree with you I'm not being honest.
If you only respond in the way you are approached, you're a fairly weak human being. Or very young.

George_Michael

There's no suggestion of fraud here

I didn't say fraud, I said "attempted fraud".
Goods sold, Payment accepted, goods not received by buyer then doing as much as possible to avoid refunding is in my opinion, an attempt to defraud.

Your last point?

Do you mean the one in which you forgot to answer the question given to you?

If you only respond in the way you are approached, you're a fairly weak human being. Or very young.

I sometimes respond in the way that I'm approached, as do most people.
If someone came up to me in a bar and they were acting very aggressively, I may well respond in the same way, but it depends on the circumstances and whether or not there were alternatives.
And no, I'm not "very young".

If you only respond in the way you are approached, you're a fairly weak human being

I would say that the weak human being is the person who can't comment on other peoples opinions without feeling the need to insult them.

First get some life experience, then decide if you are fit to sit in judgement, a role you think you are well suited for

you're a fairly weak human being. Or very young.

tightwadman

But seller has refused to refund buyer and gone to dispute, which implies they believe buyer is lying and has the item.

Whoah there Soolin, how can you possibly know all that? Only the buyer AND seller knows whats going on here so where is the other side of the argument...

................Buyer pays, seller sends by tracking mail and has attached tracking number as buyer has it.Buyer complains about non -delivery so seller must be trying to get help with compo from Royal Mail or else why would buyer be contacted by same? Its a classic case of the buyer blaming a seller for non - delivery when it looks like they have sent it and as they have attached a tracking number the seller may even win the paypal dispute and as the buyer isnt going to help good ol Royal Mail may not get all or indeed any of their money back. And just one more thing ......parcels turn up late, my record for recorded is 7 days.

Before you set yourselves up as judge and jury you need to consider all the angles. Where is there any evidence of someone committing fraud here?... or attempted fraud? And just what abuse has been going on? Sounds like the seller has definitely been trying to help the buyer so far?....

implies they believe buyer is lying

Your evidence m'lud???

shaun_from_Africa

But a decent seller wouldn't wait over 4 weeks to refund for non delivered goods, (and then only because Paypal took the decision out of their hands), and they certainly shouldn't even consider waiting until they have received compensation from Royal mail.

Its a classic case of the buyer blaming a seller for non - delivery

I disagree. I would say that it's a classic case of the buyer blaming the seller for how thay handled the non delivery.

steven0121

Personally I would be more inclined to help my best friend over a total stranger, equally Id be more inclined to help a total stranger than someone I felt had wronged me in some way, I believe this to be human nature? You can label it anyway you see fit, morality, ethics, revenge? That’s just semantics, IMHO. Being as this thread appears to be about human nature, then its always going to have differing POV. As by nature, humans will always see, feel and react to situations differently?

mazza111

Sorry, but even though the seller has been an arrogant !!!!!!, he's maybe been stung before by people claiming that they haven't received items. Heard the expression 2 wrongs don't make a right? I purchased a mobile phone, didn't arrive, even though it had been sent recorded. Buyer was slow to refund, even though I was in constant contact with him. Ended up having to escalate it to claim to get my money back. When the form arrived from RM, I filled it in and sent it back, after all it's not the seller's fault when RM screw up. This won't cost you anything, maybe the seller hasn't been very forthcoming, but what would you have done if you had been in that position? Ok perhaps you wouldn't have been a prat about it, but why not make it easier for the person who's making the claim.

steven0121

Interesting to add, that recently I recieved glowing feedback, possibly the best Ive ever recieved, from a buyer that didnt recieve an item for 2 weeks, because I went out of my way to resolve the problem. Gave them all the options and resolved the same day to their satisfaction (and my financial loss - no problem for me, my reputation is more important). They were cool, I was cool, good result. Im sure theres a lesson in there too. I believe being nice to someone, as a buyer or a seller, will always get you a preffered outcome? Hence the thread.

Shiloe

Well its taking an age to get any resolution paypal now want 'supporting evidence' from me ... eh I dont have anything so I just took screenshots of the sale page and royal mail parcel track showing still processing :undecided didnt know what they are really looking for but lets hope thats enough

The seller doesnt seem to even 'accept' that any of this is their responsiblity

And no macfly I would have to disagree and that me and the seller are the same ... me asking politely explaining the situation and him telling me to get F'ed etc resulting in me not returning a form that he wants with a fake name doesnt lower me as a person atall

Strapped

I can see the temptation to ignore the Royal Mail communication, but I think macfly has a point about personal integrity. It's the old, "you can't change other people's behaviour, only your response to it". Which is why I asked about whether the seller would only get paid if the buyer signs the form. If they will get paid anyway (eventually) then I guess it doesn't matter as much, sign or don't sign.