Should chuggers be allowed to target the financially vulnerable?

hello_sunshine

Hi all,please excuse/move me if this is in the wrong place- i'm kind of new to this posting on the interweb lark...

HOWEVER, I was inspired into thought by the Jedi Mind Tricks thread, and had this discussion with my hubby- should chuggers be allowed to target you if you are in debt, or on a socially provided income (i.e. benefits)?

I'm in debt myself- it's from uni, it's manageable (with lots of advice from this site!) and I'm cutting down, and I don't think that when I try and pay as much of my surplus income as possible off my debt that a monthly charity payment is feasible or even a good idea.
When I was at uni I noticed that the chuggers would target students, as they obviously thought they were more likely to be sympathetic to the cause, but as most students are living off borrowed money (my student loan didn't even cover my halls of residence fees) is it right to be asking them to spend money they don't have on something they don't need?
Similarly, if you live off income provided by state means-tested benefits (implying you do not have enough of your own income to cover the cost of living), how can you possibly have enough to give to charity?

When I lived and worked in a city centre, I was targeted on an almost daily basis by pretty much the same people wearing a different tabard every week. My stock reply to them would be "No thanks- I'm a student and I'm in debt- I can't afford it". The reply was usually "well if you can afford XYZ I'm sure you can afford 20p a day for starving children/animals/africans/whatever". Once, when I gave this answer I was told "you're obviously not that broke because you've just been shopping". As it was, I'd been spending a gift voucher that my mum had sent me for my birthday.She didn't want to give me cash because she wanted me to have some new clothes, not spend the money paying off my debts- it was a gift, so it was up to her. Not that it was any of his business anyway, but it's the kind of response that makes me feel quite strongly about this. :mad:

As has been highlighted on this site, lots of people get into debt because of, and in addition to mental health issues. You can feel vulnerable, lonely and isolated. The chuggers go out of the way to be chummy with you- quite a few try to hug you, they'll engage you in conversation and they'll make you feel like their best mate in order to sign up. To a person at the pit of despair, that can be too much to resist, so they'll sign up, and mean to cancel later, but never do, then go overdrawn and charged when the direct debit is unpaid, and the charity might have saved a donkey, but they've also made someone's situation a lot worse.

What I would like to see is a code of conduct that is enforced and checked. Much like the health warnings on alcohol, gambling outlets and cigarette packets i would like to see a clear and visible disclaimer on the form with wording along the lines of :

"Do not set up direct debits or standing orders that you cannot afford. X Charity is an ethical organisation which respects your right to cancel within a 14 day cooling-off period. If you no longer wish to make this donation please call 020 123 456 789

And I would like it to be enforced that the contact details to cancel are not a "retentions" department, and will cancel the direct debit with no quibble. (I'm not sure if they have a cooling off period, but when I signed up for one of these a few years ago, trying to stop it was like that episode of friends when Ross and Chandler try to quit the gym)

In terms of being approached on the street, I'd like the chuggers to have to leave you alone if you identify yourself to them as one of a range of financially vulnerable people: "Sorry, I'm in debt/a student/on benefits" etc. They could police this in the same way that shops selling booze to underage drinkers are policed- use a mystery shopper type scenario.

I'm just wondering if any other Moneysavers agree with me? I know it's hard for charities in a recession(in all but name!), and they have to find ways of making money, but it can't be right to effectively prey on the weak. Please don't call me a heartless b!tch for not giving money to charity, but I really don't feel it's sensible to be borrowing money to give away and I'd rather give my time when I'm trying hard to sort my debts out.

jd87

Completely agree with everything you say. Unfortunately politicians don't exactly want to be seen to be doing anything anti-charity so I doubt any change is going to happen anytime soon.

DCFC79

Just say no and walk away,

BoGoF

I'd go one step further and ban them from our high streets altogether.

In fact if enough people complained to their local authority about the harrassment then they would not be allowed to be there, I believe they need to be granted a licence.

hello_sunshine

DCFC79 wrote: »

Just say and walk away, nothing will happen.

The clue was in the word "vulnerable"- the sales tactics they use don't empower people to say no,and they deliberately target people likely to say yes. If people were reassured of the fact that they have the right to be left alone they might feel more confident of the fact that they could walk away without being made to feel like some sort of fluffy animal-murdering baby killer!

DCFC79

hello_sunshine wrote: »

The clue was in the word "vulnerable"- the sales tactics they use don't empower people to say no,and they deliberately target people likely to say yes. If people were reassured of the fact that they have the right to be left alone they might feel more confident of the fact that they could walk away without being made to feel like some sort of fluffy animal-murdering baby killer!

i have come across chuggers so i know what they are like, some are ok but 1 i came across was quite pushy with the whole "give x amount a month, its only small amount" i just kept on saying no until i got so far she couldnt hear me.

The vulnerable dont have a label on them saying "Hello im vulnerable"

dark^knight

Just say no thanks and walk away. I will give to charities that I want to give to, when I want to.

Kite2010

Just give fake details, if I wanted to give to charity I would give directly and not make the charity pay commission to the chuggers

stephga23

I'm the kind of person that can't say no! sometimes it's a good quality other times not so much!

I signed up at the door because I felt sorry for the guy and he kept saying its only £14 per month, I did actually say sorry I can't afford that.

He eventually and gradually lowered it to £2 a month. When I I told OH he went mad and had me ring them to cancel, that was even worse then the guy at the door!

They then rang back 6 weeks later and tried to persuade me to sign up again at the £14 monthly donation and the gradually lowering it, my OH put the phone down on them when he realised who I was talking too!

pmduk

In Manchester they're only allowed in the city centre on certain days of the week. (Three, I think). Unfortunately always the days that I'm there,

hello_sunshine

DCFC79 wrote: »

i have come across chuggers so i know what they are like, some are ok but 1 i came across was quite pushy with the whole "give x amount a month, its only small amount" i just kept on saying no until i got so far she couldnt hear me.

The vulnerable dont have a label on them saying "Hello im vulnerable"

...Which is why I qualified that with the idea that if you mention that you are one of a certain number of groups, to be made known to these companies, that they should be required to leave you alone with no further sales effort to be made.

Yes, you can say no thank you and walk away. If Just Say No worked for every social ill we would have a very nice society. Unfortunately the people most likely to be adversely affected by the problem are the ones it attracts (or that it is attracted to).

Most people are polite, and feel very rude for just barging past people- the way in for a lot of these chuggers is a very friendly greeting. Were you brought up to just say "NO! Not Interested!!" and march past when all they say is "Good morning- how are you today?"? I certainly wasn't.

My reason for starting this thread wasn't to get top tips for getting rid. From what I've seen these organisations and individuals within them seem to have no code within which to work, and members of the public are not made aware of the rights they have with regard to them, as well as the way in which these companies should act towards them.

Most people are aware, for example, that if they sign up for TPS they are within their rights to complain about sales phone calls. If they tell the chugger that they are in debt,for example, they should be treated politely and left alone. I would like to think that in a civilised society we shouldn't have to run away from people in the high street. The onus of not harassing members of the public should be on those doing the harassing, not on members of the public to avoid being harassed through their own steel will!