speeding fine challenge?

pigeonpie

Just got a speeding ticket for doing 60mph on the M25, on a bit of motorway that had been temporarily reduced to 50mph. It was 11.30pm at night and I did not see any roadworks, roadworkers, speed restriction signs or road cones which would have led me to realise that I should be going 50mph.

Just 10mph over the limit and 10mph under the normal M25 motorway speedlimit. The notice says 3 penalty points too, so they want £60 and 3 penalty points - which presumably adds to my insurance costs next year (do I have to tell them this year?)
Does it impede my hiring a car abroad too?

I am pretty upset. I never speed in urban or peri-urban areas where anyone could be injured and there was hardly any traffic on the M25 last saturday night when I was trapped.
Is there any point in challenging this? I've never had penalty points before. how long do they stay on the licence?

TadleyBaggie

pigeonpie wrote: »

The notice says 3 penalty points too, so they want £60 and 3 penalty points - which presumably adds to my insurance costs next year (do I have to tell them this year?)

3 points is unlikely to have much effect of insurance costs. Check your policy, you may have to notify them as soon as the points are applied to your licence.

pigeonpie wrote: »

Does it impede my hiring a car abroad too?

No.

pigeonpie wrote: »

Is there any point in challenging this?

The only way to challenge this is to decline the fixed penalty and plead not guilty when you are summoned. However I'm not sure what you would use as a viable defence.

pigeonpie wrote: »

I've never had penalty points before. how long do they stay on the licence?

They are active for totting up for 3 years but cannot be removed from your licence for 4 years.

dacouch

Was it in one of the road work sections?

pigeonpie

yes it was in a temporary road works area apparently. There was no-one working and the road wasn't narrowed at all. There were certainly no flashing warning symbols as you'd normally see when there's a motorway restriction etc. It was the motorway, at night, very little traffic. First time driving my new Mini on the motorway.
My friend tells me that all cars' speedometers have a 5mph margin of error so it's a pretty costly 5mph.
Sorry I am upset and didn't notice that this should have gone into a thread designated for speeding fines.

Trebor16

www.pepipoo.com in their speeding section will be the best place to post this one.

somethingcorporate

Your friend is partially right, lots of older cars have an over-read on their speedos, but it's not a fixed 5mph - it can be anything up to 10% (mine is at 70+mph). Modern cars tend to be more accurate (as do HGVs etc). Not sure how this helps your case, you thought it was 70mph when it wasn't so this 5mph wouldn't get you close to being legal if the limit was 50mph. It's not a margin of error, it is only ever an over-read unless it is faulty - this was supposedly to stop manufacturers getting sued for when people were caught speeding.

Were there no signs that said 50mph? The lack of workers, narrowing, lights etc is totally irrelevant, the only relevant bit is the signs which tell you what the speed limit is.

flyingscotno1

pigeonpie wrote: »

yes it was in a temporary road works area apparently. There was no-one working and the road wasn't narrowed at all. There were certainly no flashing warning symbols as you'd normally see when there's a motorway restriction etc. It was the motorway, at night, very little traffic. First time driving my new Mini on the motorway.
My friend tells me that all cars' speedometers have a 5mph margin of error so it's a pretty costly 5mph.
Sorry I am upset and didn't notice that this should have gone into a thread designated for speeding fines.

Basically unless there is some sort of procedural error with the administration of restriction / paperwork of ticket you have little chance of getting off.

Was it in a variable speed gantry bit?

pigeonpie

sorry, don't know what a gantry is.
It was Hertfordshire, around J21.
All I can say is that had I seen 50 mph signs, I'd have been going 50.

newfoundglory

Don't be upset - just remind yourself that this is all about making money.

I agree that pepipoo is best place for this.

I've always wondered how those variable M25 limits work - i've driven in it - but presumably it must be possible to find yourself in a variable limit and not actually know it - depending on whether the boards are showing the correct limit (human or technical error)

Unfortunately, as the system is very undemocratic and mysterious as possible - you'll not likely get any information from the police or local authority - the reason being its all about making ££££££££££

Deneb

pigeonpie wrote: »

sorry, don't know what a gantry is.
It was Hertfordshire, around J21.
All I can say is that had I seen 50 mph signs, I'd have been going 50.

There are, and have been for some time, roadworks on this stretch of the M25 between J21 and J23-24 connected with the motorway widening scheme. The lanes are all narrower than standard, and there is hard shoulder running on both carriageways with a contraflow and no safety refuge for broken down vehicles.

There are advanced warning signs for the 50mph speed limit half a mile before the restriction in each direction, large 50 signs on both sides of the carriageway at the start, constant 50 repeater signs all through the roadworks, with average speed cameras on poles at periodic intervals, and large national speed limit signs at the end of the restriction.

Speedometers are allowed to over-read by up to 10 per cent, but cannot under-read on modern vehicles. Nearly all cars tend to over-read by a margin, so to have been recorded at 60 mph your speedometer would have been showing at least that, probably slightly more, not 55mph as you assume.

It is not a variable limit, and your speed was most likely recorded by average speed cameras from the time it took you to travel between two fixed camera points.

Not being judgmental, just trying to assist with information on the road layout and circumstances. This section of the M25 is local to me and I use it frequently.

forgotmyname

Yeah i posted something a while back, On the M6 southbound. Roadworks and 50mph limit from junction 10 down.
50mph signs every so often.

Cant remember the exact details but i think the overhead temp limit signs changed to 40mph, As we passed J8A the
M5 link the overhead signs changed to national speed limit. I put my foot down and accelerated past the truck on the inside
lane then spotted the 50mph sign to the left.

I was expecting a letter but nothing came. How would i prove the variable limit sign said national speed limit applies,
When it really should have said 50mph limit applies.