Orange Bullying Tactics after Loss of Service (Their fault) - Help & Advice needed

lenorman

Hey


Basically I had been an orange customer for 8+ years on orange PAYG. Everything was fine up until October 2011.

Out of the blue my number was disconnected. No incoming calls. No outgoing. No texts. No signal. No voicemail when called / Dead tone when called!


This happened on a monday.


I contacted orange on the monday through a different phone.
I was told by a representative that it was due to technical difficulties and they would have to sort it by the IT dept and they couldnt give me a direct number and that it would be resolved in 24 hours.


I waited and then the next day I phoned again and I was told the same thing multiple times. I tried to be smart by trying again but was told it would take another 24 hours ( they had no prior knowledge of my previous calls to them from monday).

On wednesday i went to my local orange shop - surprise surprise they couldnt do anything apart from calling them and asking me to speak to them. More time wasted - Orange Retail cant help at all!!! I then went home and called them again trying to force my way and get some response other than the fact it was a technical issue / IT dept.


Now my problems were:
1- They couldnt find my number on the system (some IT problem)
2-This meant i could not get a PAC code ( later i find out this is illegal by OFCOM and if I asked for it I had to be provided one!!!)
3-My number was a gold number - which meant the operator couldnt access the account - why should this be an issue?
4-The operators/supervisors promised to call me back but never did.
5-They offered me no way to resolve this mess. I was never called back by any supervisor. I could not contact the IT dept (nor could they except via email (bizarre i know).
6- I was disconnected several times by supervisors/staff (on purpose!!!).
7-The foreign call center staff at times didnt understand the problems ( not on their flow chart it seems).


On the thursday i became p'd off.
I contacted Ofcom. They gave me a reference number and to give this to orange via a special number to the "executive team". After calling them and registering my complaint I infact got my first call back that evening stating nothing other than the same response i got on Monday (it problem, technical team need to fix, 24-36 hours). I then tried to call orange (normal customer service) by requesting to leave orange etc and got through to the retentions team. I got a pac code. Success!!!

I instantlly provided vodafone with the PAC code and within 24 hours I was back to normal albeit at a different network.


However - to switch to vodafone I had to purchase a new handset as my current one was locked to Orange.


Orange Executive Team to be frank have never called me. I have had to force the issue myself. I did have one call where I gave them all the issues and i received a letter in the first week of november.

The letter stated the usual BS and said they are willing to compensate for the amount of £100. This is shocking - Out of the £100, £70 was my calling credit which I already had - which ultimately meant for all my hassle they offered me £30.

To me this is BS. I spoke to someone in this executive team today only to be told this is as high up as it gets and i cannot speak to anyone higher. Also i was told that it was literally take it or leave it as Ofcom wont fine them a single penny for an unresolved complaint!!!


Ultimately the consumer gets screwed!!!


In short - i have spent greater than £1000 literally in the last few years in calling credit (in my school-uni days I did spend alot).
In the days that I did speak to orange - 20+ hours in full - im not compensated for nothing despite the fact I have had to dial 0870,07973 numbers in order to get through as my own number was disconnected!!!


Call duarations:
Monday - 2 hours ish
Tuesday - 2-3 Hours
Wednesday 6 Hours
Thursday (Had to take a day off work) 8 Hours
Friday - 10 mins


I was on hold alot of the time above, I was disconnected several times, I had to give them my details in excess of 100x, I had to force my hand and force them to let me speak to the supervisors. I never got any call backs though I was promised many times. I had to force the issue. Nothing was resolved untill after i gave vodafone the PAC code. I was never abusive. I withheld from swearing ( Try speaking to Indian call centers for 5+ mins and you will understand my anger) or being abusive. I did constantly repeat the facts till they understood though.


I feel annoyyed, bullied and aggravated that Orange PLC (Everything Everywhere) get away with this and the fact some "Suit (executive team)" offers a measly £30 compensation for me is distressful and moreover DISRESPECTFUL.


I probably spent over £50 in calls and travel in order to get my number back, I had to purchase a new phone, I had to MOVE network in order to get this resolved ( I was happy as an orange customer, I didnt want to leave but after getting messed around and provided with no useful Info - I had no option but to leave. I did give them time, I was patient to an extent.


I needed the number back as I have had that number for 10+ years and its also linked to my bank - If i send money to someone it texts me with a code or calls me on that number - If i dont respond I cant send money. Also if i change that number it takes 3 working days to register another number unless I go into the bank. WHich meant for 3 days I was unable to use my banking facilities.

All texts or calls were responding with a dead tone or orange answerfone - which I could not access.


Orange were unhelpful, unwilling and unresponsive throughout all this time. They could not sort the issue directly as it was a technical problem, IT problem.


Their last gesture is £30 for my trouble.


What do you suggest I do? Im willing to take this further at my expense, I feel threatened by the Executive Team who did nothing to resolve the issue till after I gave Vodafone the PAC number and have untimaltely provided me with an offer of £100 take it or leave it (£70 is my own calling credit!!!). Im frustrated!!!! The lady in question did state that she would reconsider their approach/compensation on Monday (delay tactic I think, her tone was unsympathetic and like any other orange employee - did not have a care in the world!!!)


After calling them today I feel disheartened that they can get away with this!

Are prepay customers devalued? Would it have made a difference If I was on a contract?
How can they not be responsible for losing track of a number?
How are they not responsible for loss of service to a consumer and why are ofcom orange's !!!!! rather than the other way around?

Im stuck for words right now, I no doubt know that on Monday I will get nothing other than a big F*** *** from orange for all the unnecessary grief I went through.


What options do I have?
What do you guys suggest I do?

P.S I did request that they divert all my calls to another number (orange/landline) - They could not offer this service. Nor did they offer me any resolution other than waiting it out and had no confirmation or set date as to when this would be fulfilled or even looked at - It was never confirmed that a reply had come back from this so called "IT" dept.

gjchester

What are you asking for?

They've offered you some compensation and you've moved networks, what more can they do?



OfCom will not be interested in investigating your case as such until you have been through all Oranges complaints procedure first. You say it's illegal to not give you a PAC, and that true, but if there is a problem accessing your details, then the Help desk staff won't have access to the number, it's just a transiant fault, not them acting illegally, you got it two days later.

You say you had to take a day off to deal with this, Why didn't you get another Orange PAYG mobile or even a SIM card and use that to call them for Free, You could also have simply got your credit and number moved over.

You say you decided to leave after 4 days, but you didn't give them time to find and fix the issue. It's not good that they have not called back but calling and asking for updates won't help if there is no update to give you, your fault will be one of many they are working on at the time. Would you also prefer that Orange called all the customers with a fault on a daily basis to say "Sorry no resolution but we are still looking into it", thats just not possible.

Most IT teams work on priorities and a one person issue will be low compared to one that affects many people. Again it's not saying you should get a lesser service, fault priorities are based on the needs of many not the few.

IT teams also *should* not be customer contactable, I know that seems odd but best practice is all contact should be by/ through the help desk. Why? because it stops non technical poeople trying to do their own diagnosis and contact who they think is the right person direct, which can mean incidents get delayed, misrouted and time wasted.

You say this is a IT issue, which IT team is it, Server, networks, Provisioning, applications and so on, unless work in IT and klnow exactly where to route an incident you may end up talking to the wrong team, and that does not help. Talking direct to the techs also may mean your call is lost or not recorded as a incident and there is no incident record created to work on.

Help desks usually resolve 80-90% of incidents in the initial call, it makes sense to offshore that to save costs and just pass on the difficult problems to a dedicated IT team. You may not like it this way that it's hard to contact the technical folks direct but if people could the service level would drop.

If you desperatly needed a phone you could have bought a PAYG one, having to go to a bank to change your telephone banking, and telling people you tempoprary number is a bind but not impossible, you went into a store on the Wednesday you could have call into the bank too. You didn't have to buy a new phone you could have got yours unlocked.

I understand it was frustrating. I'm not trying to defend Orange, if someone says they call back then it should happen, but you seem to be making this into much more than it was.



If you really want to get compensations you'll need to work out exctly how much time you look, log all the attempts to contact Orange (by whatever means), work out what it cost you in lost earnings and all the costs you paid out and take them to court for the costs.

Good Luck

robbies_gal

why not jsut get orange to unlock the phone for you-you then could have moved to anyone you wanted

lenorman

What are you asking for?


They've offered you some compensation and you've moved networks, what more can they do?

>They can compensate for the hassle i went through, can compensate for the fact I didnt want to move networks but they gave me no choice. With their quote - Im at a sgnificant loss.



OfCom will not be interested in investigating your case as such until you have been through all Oranges complaints procedure first. You say it's illegal to not give you a PAC, and that true, but if there is a problem accessing your details, then the Help desk staff won't have access to the number, it's just a transiant fault, not them acting illegally, you got it two days later.

>When they did have access to the system they still wouldnt give a PAC number. At times there was problems accessing the system details for my account only (It was not a nationwide problem). According to the lady i spoke to - The Executive team is as high as it gets. The normal CS team are useless and she has no supervisor/management team that I can speak to. She barely has understood the sequence of evernts which I went through. They have literally told me the executive team is as high as it gets. No one higher can be contacted nor can i write to anyone but this department. Also the person im speaking to has no supervisor/manager to report to.

You say you had to take a day off to deal with this, Why didn't you get another Orange PAYG mobile or even a SIM card and use that to call them for Free, You could also have simply got your credit and number moved over.

>Its not free even with a orange sim card. It costs 25p and then you have the added hassle that the number you call from is listed in every call that you make to them and they then try to register that number and when they forward you to another department the number your calling from becomes the main number. Its added hassle and even though I did do this it was easier calling them from a non Orange handset/landline.

You say you decided to leave after 4 days, but you didn't give them time to find and fix the issue. It's not good that they have not called back but calling and asking for updates won't help if there is no update to give you, your fault will be one of many they are working on at the time. Would you also prefer that Orange called all the customers with a fault on a daily basis to say "Sorry no resolution but we are still looking into it", thats just not possible.

>LOL. Monday-Thursday is 4 days. In 4 days to fix what i describe as a 30 second solution is a long time. Let me give you an example. If you lose/damage a sim card with vodafone - you can go out and buy a sim card. It takes them 5 minutes to transfer any vodafone number to that sim card period. This was the same in 2000 as it is in 2012. 4 days of no updates, constant messing around, no replies, indian call centres, idiotic supervisors - I have to draw the line somewhere. Had i let it pass on till Friday nothing would have been done the following Monday. It would literally be a wasted week. Not to mention the hassle for anybody trying to get in touch with me. 4 Days is a huge amount of time for a quick 5 minute operation. wouldn't you agree?Im sure other networks can transfer mobile numbers to sim cards too. Im using vodafone from experiance.

>If the operator's said they would contact me and took my alternative contaact number then they should phone me back. what was the point im me giving me giving them an alternative contact number after they requested it and then not call me back?
I had no means of contactting them. I had to go through to general customer services and their supervisors. I was not receiving signal, my line was literally dead - I did spend 4 days to rectify things.

Most IT teams work on priorities and a one person issue will be low compared to one that affects many people. Again it's not saying you should get a lesser service, fault priorities are based on the needs of many not the few.
>They should still be reachable by supervisors. Especially when there is a permanent dead line issue and also a system error where my details are missing at times. I would class this as a serious flaw. The second flaw is the fact that no one in orange can speak to this team. The third being they have no way to update the supervisors and/or the executive team. After 4 days the executive team (who have superior investigating powers) told me the same thing as the normal call centre staff and supervisors told me on day one - the only plus being she actually bothered calling me back. After 4 days you are back to square 1. The fact that they were dealing with the matter and I was given 24hour periods multiple times means they must generally respond within 24 hours but in this case they werent? I didnt force them to check it there and then, I asked how long it would take for me to resume to normal service - Orange staff quoted 24 hours.

IT teams also *should* not be customer contactable, I know that seems odd but best practice is all contact should be by/ through the help desk. Why? because it stops non technical poeople trying to do their own diagnosis and contact who they think is the right person direct, which can mean incidents get delayed, misrouted and time wasted.
>If orange quoted it as a IT fault and only the "IT" team could be contactable then I do believe there should atleast be a way for the IT team to contact the customer. Its fine if I cant contact them, but they should have the decency to say something is being done or if they have even received some emails. After 4 days I was under the impression everyone was clueless (inc the executive team). No one had anything concrete or a better explanation of the problem other than it was a technical matter.

>It was only after i forced the issue by providing the PAC number that things became clearer on the orange side yet - my sim cards etc were never switched on within the 24 hours - I am led to believe that they figured out I was switching and then literally made excuses so say it was fixed. If it was fixed - they had 24 hours to literally switch on my line as vodafone didnt switch it on till 5-6pm on the Friday. Again, just lies by the staff.

You say this is a IT issue, which IT team is it, Server, networks, Provisioning, applications and so on, unless work in IT and klnow exactly where to route an incident you may end up talking to the wrong team, and that does not help. Talking direct to the techs also may mean your call is lost or not recorded as a incident and there is no incident record created to work on.
>They had no idea. According to them its a free-for-all dept which does them all. They could not provide any info - nor did they have any from my calls with them. They were clueless. I could not speak to the IT team, nor could they - it had to be via email(from orange only - i couldnt get this email as it was internal email only).

Help desks usually resolve 80-90% of incidents in the initial call, it makes sense to offshore that to save costs and just pass on the difficult problems to a dedicated IT team. You may not like it this way that it's hard to contact the technical folks direct but if people could the service level would drop.
>I was told this team was in the UK. Which meant i was under the impression that the operating hours were 9am-5pm. Thats what I was using for the 24hour periods. Again - only orange personnel had contact with them. They never contacted me once. Nor could i be put through. But if orange staff claimed it was a technical/IT matter after going through everything else - There should be a meaningful way to contact them or for them to call me and ask for any specifics. I couknt care less about the location of the team - If orange gave me 24 hour periods in which the matter should have been resolved then there should be some valid explanation other than the fact they will send another email to them and i should >wait another 24 hours.

If you desperatly needed a phone you could have bought a PAYG one, having to go to a bank to change your telephone banking, and telling people you tempoprary number is a bind but not impossible, you went into a store on the Wednesday you could have call into the bank too. You didn't have to buy a new phone you could have got yours unlocked.
>The three day rule was in effect for any "changed numbers" on my bank account for security reasons. The tone was dead. At times it reached orange answerphone. I could not access my voicemail. Orange couldnt forward my calls to another phone (not even a landline nor a orange payg - I did ask every day). For an issue that was supposed to take 24hours - a temporary number was pointless. It was on thursday when literally it was my last hope of salvaging my number by moving networks via a PAC code ( they take 24hours and im unsure if weekends count).

I understand it was frustrating. I'm not trying to defend Orange, if someone says they call back then it should happen, but you seem to be making this into much more than it was.

>4 days of constant messing around. 4 days of my number being dead. 4 days of orange not having a clue what was going on. 4 days of being rejected to speak to any "experts". Orange retail being unable to help. No chance of them forwarding my calls to a different number (even at my expense - I had credit). It was only after Ofcom that i even got anywhere and even then this "executive team" could tell me no more than the normal customer service representative. Am i really making this into more than it should?
>My only solution was to move networks which I reluctantly did. I wanted the issue resolved but I was getting nowhere. Why do they promise amazing customer service when in fact they could not do anything to help for 4 days. Moreover, I might be wrong but I am under the impression the team that deals with PAC codes is a different department using a different system (generally speaking they cannot deal with anything other than disconnections and retentions) - they should have given me the PAC code on day 1 >instead of refusing!


If you really want to get compensations you'll need to work out exctly how much time you look, log all the attempts to contact Orange (by whatever means), work out what it cost you in lost earnings and all the costs you paid out and take them to court for the costs.

> Im unsure what I will do at this point. They dont treat you as a customer but a mere number. According to them it was never their fault but mine for leaving (arrogant tone from the executive team). They also never contacted me multiple times when they said they would. Its a joke the way I have been treated. Im lucky i was not on a contract as I would never have onbtained a PAC code then and for all i know it would have taken weeks to resolve. Its a joke the way the whole matter is being treated from start to finish!

lenorman

gabbyevs wrote: »

why not jsut get orange to unlock the phone for you-you then could have moved to anyone you wanted

I dont think you understand what went on.
My number was working fine on orange then one day the signal died. It was not a phone problem. It was on their end.
For 4 days i tried to get this rectified but i was getting nowhere.

I then went out and bought another phone after I was given a PAC code and switched network (reluctantly).

Even if i had asked orange to unlock the phone - it would have taken 2 weeks. I needed my number back instantly.

Its not the fact i had to go out and buy a phone - its the fact that orange were never able to fix my service within the allocated time and I was being messed around without a proper explanation.

robbies_gal

no i understand that but you wanted the number instantly you didnt have to buy another phone-did you ask them how long the unlocking would take

id say a hundred pounds is fair but if you want to go for more then up to you

lenorman

gabbyevs wrote: »

no i understand that but you wanted the number instantly you didnt have to buy another phone-did you ask them how long the unlocking would take

id say a hundred pounds is fair but if you want to go for more then up to you

An iphone my friend got unlocked took 7-10 working days. I remember a nokia being unlocked also took 14 days. I was using an orange locked handset but I would never have purchased another phone whilst i was still using orange. Im now left with an orange paperweight.

The total they are offering is £100. What you are not realising is that £70 of this was my calling credit - which they would have refunded anyways. They are only offering £30 which is a joke in reality.

Guys_Dad

lenorman wrote: »

. Im now left with an orange paperweight.
.

Can't the Orange handset be unlocked at a market stall??

robbies_gal

yes if its an old model of a phone alot of market places or even online can do them

wot model is it

lenorman

its an orange zte/spv handset. The model is an orange lisbon. I now have an unlocked Nokia which i have gotten used to now and also have an iphone which is also unlocked. Im not bothered about the fact i now have an orange paperweight. At the time I needed the mobile so i had to buy a vodafone handset in order to switch over once I got the PAC code. I was always more concerned about the number rather than the mobile. The problem is orange seem not to care. I had to force the issue by switching networks as Orange couldnt provide me with the service they should have.

I have checked just there on ebay and it is unlockable.

My point is the service i received from orange was crap. They are not compensating for anything - £30 is measly and ridiculous for a customer of many years who regurlarly used the handset and was happy. I spent more in tryiong to get my services switched back on. It was their fault. They should compensate for the damage. They have done nothing of the sorts. They must have a log of everytime my account was accessed by an orange employee. They do have recordings of all the calls.

They did nothing to resolve the issue and now arent accepting responsibility that they are liable for the loss of service. Their customer support sucks. This was my first problem in X years and they could no nothing to help. The executive team could do nothing. Orange retail didnt want to know you and were more interested in "new customers".

simax

lenorman wrote: »

The total they are offering is £100. What you are not realising is that £70 of this was my calling credit - which they would have refunded anyways. They are only offering £30 which is a joke in reality.

If you leave a network on PAYG, you forfeit any remaining credit.