Scammer selling non-existent items, then buying and passing their buyer's address on

porto_bello

Evening All,

This is a new one on me, but it's probably known as an old trick by some. The question I'm posing is what would you do in my shoes?

I sold an item and the buyer who I know is trouble. Naturally, I blocked them as soon as I knew, but they got around the block by buying from me using a different ID. The item is honestly described and photographed as used.

They instructed me to send the item to a completely different name and address to their own. I refused to send it anywhere else but their own registered name and address, as shown on the paypal invoice. They were unhappy, but accepted this as the only other alternative I would offer was cancelling the transaction.

I sent it to them signed for and the signature appears on-line, so there’s no disputing it arrived.

Knowing they were less than honest, I sensed there was more to this other name and address and having looked at their other, original eBay ID, sure enough, there is:

I can see that the same day and just an hour before they purchased my used item, they sold exactly the same item, only it was described as new and for a 50% higher price. It’s pretty obvious that they sold a new item they didn’t have, then tried to get me to send my used one direct to their buyer – so they just pocketed the difference.

I’ve prevented the last address bit of the scam, but when the buyer receives a used item from this scammer, instead of the new one they paid for, I expect it’ll all kick off! The rogue I’ve unfortunately sold to gets a fair few negs and likes dishing them out too, so I could end up being shafted.

I’ve phoned eBay for advice, talked them through the item numbers and messages, explained that I’ve been sent another eBay member’s name and address, and basically revealed what’s going on.

They recognised what was going on well enough but I’ve just been given vague assurances and there’s no real sense that anything’s wrong with selling someone else’s used goods as new goods that don’t actually exist!

I’m especially surprised how mellow eBay is about somebody sending another member’s details to a third party!

Any ideas? I really don’t want to find this rogue has got a deserved neg, so they’ve given me an undeserved one too!:mad:

sunflower_2

no ideas sorry - but totally shocked that people could do this ???

hope u dont get sh*fted xxx

johnnyboyrebel

This is a basic 'see an item for sale from one seller and in the meantime mark the price up and list for sale myself' thing. Once this seller buys he simply enters his/hers own customers details and has sold for a markup. It's dropshipping.

The only difference between a basic dropshipping sale and this one is that they are buying used and selling new which clearly is wrong. As far as the dropshipping element goes it's common practice, eBay is chock-a-block of these type of sales. If you are worried about customer details potentially being shared around then don't use a marketplace as it is more common than people may think.

You don't need stock to make a business anymore unfortunately which is why there are so many unprofessionals selling on there that couldn't actually run a real business.

As it is so commonplace I guess this is why eBay are so lax about it.

Make-it-3

I would say well done for spotting it and only sending the item to your buyers registered address. It's now up to their buyer to complain/neg about not getting what they paid for. If your buyer does this persistently he/she will have very poor feedback and eventually get banned. So just let due process occur and keep this person blocked from buying from you.

QuackQuackOops

You dont have any proof of any of this. How could anyone have proof? Its all speculation based on what you think has gone on.

Im not even sure how you could know some of the things you talk about, such as him being a dodgy buyer who was on your blocked bidder list. How could you know it was the same person unless he said "Hey, Im bad news".

Also, how did you know that the address he gave you was one of another Ebayer? Did he tell you? Did he send a message and say "This is the address of another ebayer, can you send the item there?" Of course he didnt.
Ebay have no proof either that he sent you the address of another ebayer.

It is entirely possible that he has sold an item that is exactly the same that was new...and is now buying a used one. You dont know his story, you dont know his reasoning for doing things the way he does them.

It would be a very risky business for anyone to do this and barely worth the hassels involved.

You ask "Any ideas?" Any ideas about what? What hes doing? What you should do?
He isnt doing anything as far as I can see. The only thing he did that he shouldnt is ask you to post somewhere other than the address on Paypal...but that isnt proof of any type of scamming.
As for what Imight do if I were in your shoes....nothing. There is no proof. Just circumstancial bits activity.

And sellers cant give negs. Havent been able to for a long time now....so I dont know how you could neg each other.

QuackQuackOops

Thats not dropshipping. How can they get around the posting to name and address on Paypal only?

Drop shipping is when you order from your supplier in hong kong (or whereever) only when you have an order and you give the buyers name and address for the delivery....but the payment is all done through the same seller.

soolin

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

Thats not dropshipping. How can they get around the posting to name and address on Paypal only?

Drop shipping is when you order from your supplier in hong kong (or whereever) only when you have an order and you give the buyers name and address for the delivery....but the payment is all done through the same seller.

Drop shipping is any form of buying goods and having them sent to your buyers address. You see people doing it quite a bit with Amazon books and DVDs, they wait for a sale on ebay and then order the goods from Amazon to go straight to buyers address.

AS for the address that is easy, as long as the buyers address is added to paypal before they pay then it can go there as that is the address that shows up as 'OK to send' on Paypal.

porto_bello

I'm grateful for everyone's good wishes. I decided to give eBay another call and spoke to someone with a different perspective. Basically, if I receive a neg, I was advised to get back in touch and ask for removal, which I am encouraged to believe should be successful. In advance of this event, all the details are now already logged against the item.

I was however, surprised by one response, so I've clarified a few points below:

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

You dont have any proof of any of this. How could anyone have proof? Its all speculation based on what you think has gone on.

I think it's rather more than just speculation. I'll add a few points against your comments.

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

Im not even sure how you could know some of the things you talk about, such as him being a dodgy buyer who was on your blocked bidder list. How could you know it was the same person unless he said "Hey, Im bad news".

From the nature of their messages from the original eBay ID, and from the trend of some of the comments on their feedback and left for others, they did indeed look like very bad news, so I blocked them even before they tried to buy from me.

They are a business seller, so I can see the name and address of the eBay ID on all their items.

On the paypal & eBay transaction, I can see the details of the account holder of the second eBay ID, who has:
Exactly the same forename
Exactly the same surname
Exactly the same address
Exactly the same phone number

Call it speculation, but I suggest they are one and the same person, using two accounts, using the second account to buy from me because I blocked their first.

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

Also, how did you know that the address he gave you was one of another Ebayer? Did he tell you? Did he send a message and say "This is the address of another ebayer, can you send the item there?" Of course he didnt.
Ebay have no proof either that he sent you the address of another ebayer."

The UK based name and address I was passed by this dodgy ID with 2 accounts consisted of an entirely foreign name, such as, for example, "Jan Van Goyen"

But I can also see from the dodgy business seller's account that they have left positive feedback for the buyer of their identical item, and the buyer's eBay ID happens to consist of the same 2 initials and surname, such as, in the above example "jv_goyen".

Speculation again maybe, but I'd say the matching initials and uncommon, foreign surname are too much of a coincidence. [eBay seemed to think so, and they obviously have both everyone's account details and they clearly have the name and address messaged to my account, because the representative read it to me, so that would offer proof enough.

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

It is entirely possible that he has sold an item that is exactly the same that was new...and is now buying a used one. You dont know his story, you dont know his reasoning for doing things the way he does them.

You're right, it could be that they sold a new item to an eBay ID such as 'ab_cerrone', and an hour later, they purchased the same item, but in used condition, from me and coincidentally wanted me to send it to a similar, foreign name in the UK, such as 'Alexis B Cerrone'... but I think the 'drop shipping' scenario far more likely.

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

It would be a very risky business for anyone to do this and barely worth the hassels involved.

True, but they are selling in volume and their feedback left and received shows an unhealthy record of contempt for both buyers and sellers, which suggests they are a high risk taker.

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

You ask "Any ideas?" Any ideas about what? What hes doing? What you should do?
He isnt doing anything as far as I can see. The only thing he did that he shouldnt is ask you to post somewhere other than the address on Paypal...but that isnt proof of any type of scamming.
As for what Imight do if I were in your shoes....nothing. There is no proof. Just circumstancial bits activity.

OK, thanks for sharing your viewpoint.

On balance, I still think there is evidence enough to suggest this is a scammer, selling non-existent new items, then buying used ones and forwarding the genuine buyer's addresses. And I think the genuine buyer is going to be very upset with a used item, sold as new, for a 50% premium.

QuackQuackOops wrote: »

And sellers cant give negs. Havent been able to for a long time now....so I dont know how you could neg each other.

I am well aware that any seller cannot leave negative feedback, that's exactly why I'm worried and asked for advice here.

I think the genuine buyer (with the foreign name) is going to be unhappy with paying for a new item and finding it's used. The scammer clearly doesn't believe in customer care, so the genuine buyer will probably neg the scammer's business account. And since the scammer can't neg their buyer in return, they will most likely respond by negging me from their second account, knowing I can't neg them.

Anyway, again, thanks for everyone's input. I'll await developments.:)

forgotmyname

I would have dropped a letter in the post to the new buyer with the items serial number, Explaining you have sold this as
a 2nd hand used item and had been asked to post it to them which you refused.

If you have an old phone you can turn off after or an email address maybe leave them contact details.

If you put the serial number they can confirm the item was yours, Maybe they got someone else to send the item to that
buyer though?

Other than saying its new when its not i dont see the problem with selling something at a higher price. You got your money.

Strapped

forgotmyname wrote: »

I would have dropped a letter in the post to the new buyer with the items serial number, Explaining you have sold this as
a 2nd hand used item and had been asked to post it to them which you refused.

If you have an old phone you can turn off after or an email address maybe leave them contact details.

If you put the serial number they can confirm the item was yours, Maybe they got someone else to send the item to that
buyer though?

Other than saying its new when its not i dont see the problem with selling something at a higher price. You got your money.

I agree that the only problem with this was passing off a used item as new.

Obviously_the_best

@porto bello

In the package I'd include the order details page off of eBay, that shows your username, your buyers username and the price you sold it to them for, just an idea