ECONOMY 7.... Anyone understand it ???

Brian99_2

Espresso - THANKS - that's a brillant link which answers a few questions....

and shows that some people do INDEED have two meters !!!! I wasn't seeing ghost meters !!

The clicking we hear of many relay-switches shows it MUST be teleswitching.

I've seen info confirming that Rate 1 is Normal and Rate 4 is Low.

espresso

Brian99 wrote: »

RITCHIE - your photo is exactly right !!

There are definitely TWO working meters like that. Probably cos the house has 7 storage heaters and the AGA , and the Immersion heater. (thats a big load for one meter). But I have rewritten my long post 15 to clarify things further; and should answer your questions.

The reason that you have two meters is not because of the load which will not be anywhere near to 100A that each meter is rated at. The main supply fuse will also be rated at 100A.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Right so we have established that the dwelling is wired in a very unusual way. One meter clearly dealing with cheap/night rate and the other we assume with day rate. 7 x 3.5kWh storage heaters and a 30a electric AGA is a lot of draw for the original wiring spec in an old house. Is the AGA the heat-storage one designed for cheap off-peak [E7] electricity ?

What I still do not get is what these two meters, even wired upstream as described above, are priced at. The situation as understood is that all leccy at cheap-rate should be charged at the appropriate tariff. What Brian99 is saying is the one is still charging at day-rate when it should be cheap-rate.

HappyMJ

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Right so we have established that the dwelling is wired in a very unusual way. One meter clearly dealing with cheap/night rate and the other we assume with day rate. 7 x 3.5kWh storage heaters and a 30a electric AGA is a lot of draw for the original wiring spec in an old house. Is the AGA the heat-storage one designed for cheap off-peak [E7] electricity ?

What I still do not get is what these two meters, even wired upstream as described above, are priced at. The situation as understood is that all leccy at cheap-rate should be charged at the appropriate tariff. What Brian99 is saying is the one is still charging at day-rate when it should be cheap-rate.

I doubt all the storage heaters are the biggest 3.4kWh versions. That would be a very warm house. I'd guess most would be the 1.7kWh versions. That's still 52A though plus 30A for the AGA.

Richie-from-the-Boro

HappyMJ wrote: »

I doubt all the storage heaters are the biggest 3.4kWh versions. That would be a very warm house. I'd guess most would be the 1.7kWh versions. That's still 52A though plus 30A for the AGA.

I know, I plucked the 'biggies' out of thin air to indicate that if they were the biggest its still just under the MAX load of the supply fuse .. .. but unless the house was re-wired that's a heck of a lot going over wiring that was never ever expected to carry such loads !

By time you add in what is considered small these days, a 10kW shower and maybe a 12kW induction hob its a heavy duty. I wouldn't want my shower / AGA / Induction hob to be on anything less than a dedicated 10mm cable.

HappyMJ

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

I know, I plucked the 'biggies' out of thin air to indicate that if they were the biggest its still just under the MAX load of the supply fuse .. .. but unless the house was re-wired that's a heck of a lot going over wiring that was never ever expected to carry such loads !

By time you add in what is considered small these days, a 10kW shower and maybe a 12kW induction hob its a heavy duty. I wouldn't want my shower / AGA / Induction hob to be on anything less than a dedicated 10mm cable.

A 12kw induction hob as well. Is this a hotel? At these levels they'd be on a 3 phase supply.

Richie-from-the-Boro

HappyMJ wrote: »

A 12kw induction hob as well. Is this a hotel? At these levels they'd be on a 3 phase supply.

- induction's do 'pulse' and even with diversity applied they still pull a lot more of power than the AGA
- but yes you are right I was again making the observation that unless recently re-wired that home is gonna pull some power
- add in all the norms like microwaves / driers / washers / plasma's and a multitude of other bits .. and ..

Brian99_2

Stop confusing the situation.
1. It was totally rewired when storage heaters were put in, designed for Econ 7.
2. And No induction hob. But yes, the total max. load would be big.

3. RIGHT HAND meter counts up on BOTH its registers (at night) (as I explained) ..... But far too much on the full rate register.

4. Yes the AGA was bought specially for Econ 7, to charge up cheaply at night.

QUESTION IS.... are the Teleswitching settings made at EON ? or at DNO ?

Or do we need a man to come a long, expensive, journey up twisty valleys ?

john1

I just come across this thread so forgive me for butting in, however just to confirm the two meter aspect.


I have one separate (3 phase) 10hr. heatwise meter which is metering solely for hot water and storage heating purposes.


The standard “on peak meter” covers all the remaining light, sockets and cooker demand.


The heatwise, teleswitch meter has 6 selectable display readings. First selection is a display check, followed by date/time , total units used and then the remaining three displays are for the consumed units during the peak, afternoon/ evening and night charging periods.


For hot water I have a large, insulated water cylinder, fitted with two side immersion heaters. The lower heater is connected to the heatwise circuit, the upper to the normal “on peak” supply.


The teleswitch (operated by radio control from e-on) operates a “3 phase contactor” which connects the storage and water heaters to the heatwise supply. Should I require to manually switch the storage heater supply on when the heatwise tariff is not available then the boost (peak)reading is activated on the heatwise meter, and charged at normal on peak rates. I have never used this boost facility.

I supply 4 separate meter readings to e-on.

One” on peak” from standard meter, and three (peak, afternoon/ evening and night) from my heatwise meter. Incidentally, the e-on meter readers are unable to record correctly my readings, as their hand held units have not been programed for this particular set up.


So I guess it is not normal for two meters to be used on domestic installations.


The 3 phase supply is by the way for load balancing as designed and installed FOC by East Midlands Electricity (now known as E-On)

Brian99_2

Interesting John, probably an unusual system.

You have three different [STRIKE]rates[/STRIKE] (edit, periods) ; so is that called Economy 10 ?or maybe another tariff ??