Mother gifted car 6 weeks before death to sibling and there is no money for funeral

meritaten

bazneol - it sounds like your brother may hold the only copy of the will - and is going through probate without benefit of the solicitors advice.......which he is perfectly entitled to do.
However, I would be contacting the Probate service - just in case he changes the game plan and applies for letters of administration instead. Perhaps with the intention of being the only beneficiary?
you will find details of how to contact Probate on www.direct.gov it is quite in order for you to write or contact them with your suspicions about your brother and whether there is a will or not.
once again - I am so sorry for all this trouble at this time of grief for you.

meritaten

Birdy12 wrote: »

Just out of interest, can a will really go missing? Surely there's a copy held safely somewhere?

You dont have to lodge a will with the probate people or leave a copy with the solicitor if you dont want to - many people just take the signed and witnessed legal copy home with them.
The solicitor can only confirm that A will was made - he cannot definitively say that it would be the legal one. Even a home drawn one can be perfectly legal if done in the correct way. a solicitor wouldnt know this had been done would they?

peachyprice

OP, what are you expecting the will to show? You've already said she didn't own anything so there are no assets, your brother is selling the car to pay for the funeral, I don't understand what you expecting from the will, do you think if your brother isn't mentioned in it you can get the car back?

bazneol

I was hoping when the will was out in the open the executers could dispose of whatever as she so wished when the will was made approx 12 months ago. This is all the solicitor could confirm one had been made but they didn't hold a copy.

I also hoped it would protect her partner who as I mentioned before is vulnerable. Brother has started including him in his family when he has made it clear he can't stand him.

However I have contacted social care and they are aware and an investigation is already under way. So I an not the only one with suspisions.

I am happy my mother can have the funeral and rest in peace and hopefully when my ex-brothers time comes he can burn in hell!

wanchai_2

bazneol wrote: »

I shouldn't have to justify my financial circumstances but I will. I have 2 young children and I work full time, I've got no debts but that is because I believe if you can't afford it don't have it. I could get a loan but why should I? My brother on the other hand has always been greedy and purchased what he couldn't afford, he has been bankrupt and he thinks the world owes him a living. He is greedy and alway has been.

I came on the forum to see if anybody could give me legal advice.

With regard to probate I don't understand the system at all I just ment my nephew is dealing with that side of things.

Yes, your brother sounds like a nightmare. But please don't let it make you bitter. You have lost your mother and, angry though you may be, she deserves better than this.

I hope that you get it all sorted.

Padstow

bazneol wrote: »

You are welcome to judge me. I paid for my fathers funeral 15 years ago because my mother couldn't afford it and my father left no provisions. At the start of mothers illness the doctors informed us it would be very quick and this ment there was time for discussions regarding arrangements. We knew mother had no money and no assets so my brother and myself agreed we would use the car to pay for the funeral. My brother already has his own car.

I shouldn't have to justify my financial circumstances but I will. I have 2 young children and I work full time, I've got no debts but that is because I believe if you can't afford it don't have it. I could get a loan but why should I? My brother on the other hand has always been greedy and purchased what he couldn't afford, he has been bankrupt and he thinks the world owes him a living. He is greedy and alway has been.

I came on the forum to see if anybody could give me legal advice.

With regard to probate I don't understand the system at all I just ment my nephew is dealing with that side of things.

I certainly don't judge you, I know through experience how shameless some can be.

In my case the vultures started hovering when dad collapsed and was taken to hospital.

My brother was notified and attended. We left, and my brother, (he 66, me 58 then, so not hotheads) pinned me against the hospital wall, his arm over my shoulder and demanded to know if all was well with dad's will. Was the signature correct?

Could any of the kindly neighbours have wormed their way in?

It was horrible. Dad, our wonderful dad. had collapsed and all my brother could think about was what was coming to him.

I'll skip to the day of my dad's funeral, though there's much in between.

Brother's wife sidled up against me and said. "Well at least he beat the social services haha!

What she meant was, dad got so many weeks in the nursing home free before he paid from his savings. He died a week short so she was pleased.

Brother and myself were equal in Dad's eyes and his Will, so we received the same.

Brother still had to have the upper hand so stripped Dad's house of everything.
I didn't care, but my old school uniform and things that my daughter would love to see now, 60's clothes. have all gone to the tip.

She does have my boater still, and I swear she sleeps with it.

Birdy12

meritaten wrote: »

You dont have to lodge a will with the probate people or leave a copy with the solicitor if you dont want to - many people just take the signed and witnessed legal copy home with them.
The solicitor can only confirm that A will was made - he cannot definitively say that it would be the legal one. Even a home drawn one can be perfectly legal if done in the correct way. a solicitor wouldnt know this had been done would they?

So, if someone doesn't leave the will with the solicitor, you'd have to hope they let someone know where they've put it? Otherwise, totally defeats the object of making one, doesn't it?

Thanks for the info, though, I hadn't given much thought to it before. To my knowledge, I left mine with the solicitor. So, if the unfortunate happened, people can find out where I've left it, is that correct?

tim_holman

You need to tally up all assets in your mother's name. Anything in joint names would pass to the joint owner, eg money in joint bank account.
Funeral expenses, any debts or tax would come out of the remainder.
If she was married, then without a will the rest goes to her husband. If unmarried then to children n equal shares.
If the car was a gift then it would be down to you or the CPS to prove it wasn't a gift, which is nigh on impossible. This does get abused in probate, but nothing you could do about it without ramping up legal costs
The will makes sense as if they were unmarried, then the will would ensure that the unmarried partner would get the house, otherwise it would go to children.
A solicitor is likely to cost a few thousand, so not worth it if there is limited money in the estate.
Your mother's partner could get up to £700 for funeral expenses if they were on income support.
If a will is lost or destroyed then you're stuck, unless you can prove that someone destroyed it. They should be looked after and in a safe place, I would imagine your mother's partner would have the original. Copies aren't much good as you need an original to get grant of probate.
The direct.gov.uk site is very useful in explaining these things - probably a bit late to help you out now, but there for anyone whom might stumble across this post.

Savvy_Sue

bazneol wrote: »

I phoned the solicitors when I became suspicious at the start and they confirmed there was a will and I left it at that and that they would never change a will of a terminally ill person.

I can't see why a solicitor would not change the will of a terminally ill person. Obviously they'd have to check first that the person was still of sound mind, knew and understood what they were doing, and was not being pressurised to make the change. But absolutely no reason not to do it, ever, just because someone knows they're dying.

cookie54 wrote: »

do not sign anything regarding the undertakers as you will then be libel to pay it .

The person who arranges the funeral ends up with responsibility to pay for it. No doubt this is all sorted now, but if you don't want to pay for one, don't get involved in arranging it.

jpwhittle

bazneol wrote: »

You are welcome to judge me. I paid for my fathers funeral 15 years ago because my mother couldn't afford it and my father left no provisions. At the start of mothers illness the doctors informed us it would be very quick and this ment there was time for discussions regarding arrangements. We knew mother had no money and no assets so my brother and myself agreed we would use the car to pay for the funeral. My brother already has his own car.

I shouldn't have to justify my financial circumstances but I will. I have 2 young children and I work full time, I've got no debts but that is because I believe if you can't afford it don't have it. I could get a loan but why should I? My brother on the other hand has always been greedy and purchased what he couldn't afford, he has been bankrupt and he thinks the world owes him a living. He is greedy and alway has been.

I came on the forum to see if anybody could give me legal advice.

With regard to probate I don't understand the system at all I just ment my nephew is dealing with that side of things.

Ok im sorry and im not judging, but i know when this time comes for my parents money wont be an issue for their funeral!, I will sort out any grievances (and yes i know there will be some) after the funeral, but nearly 2 weeks after my parents death i dont think i would like them still in a funeral home while i argue with my brother over who is paying for it. At this rate they will be having a paupers funeral and nieve or not I dont think thats a regret i want to live with, surley the best thing is to give a good send of then sort your differences? At leaast then you can hold your head high knowing you did the best for your poor mum.
And before anyone thinks i wont understand the situation, I do. I to have a brother that is so far in debt its unreal, he doesnt work, he scrounges of everyone. My brother thinks the world revolves around him and it owes him everything on a silver plater, and also that because we work and spend our money on the children he has a very bad attitude to us. All this after talling my husband that he doesnt need to go to work when our taxes pay for him to stay at home all day and see his children while my husband doesnt see his own:eek:. Said brothers wife also told my parents that she cant wait for them to die so she can have their house:mad: my mum and dad are only in their 50's.
As soon as the end comes I know all i will hear is how they cant afford it and will struggle, he will try to pay (not very hard) but inevitably it will be down to me.
But quite honestly if you have been with them all the time i would be wanting to give my parents a respectable send of rather than be bickering.
The debt should die with your mum, thats what happened when my grandad died in the summer, he had racked up loads of debts with his daughter but the ones in his name died with him, and there is a funeral grant you can get to help towards the cost, i dont know quite what its called but it is there for situations such as this.