Mother gifted car 6 weeks before death to sibling and there is no money for funeral

BitterAndTwisted

I can see fraud and a criminal offence by him helping himself to money in his dead Mum's bank account. The car is a red herring however irksome it might be to see him stripping that asset from her.

cazziebo

I understand this is a very difficult time but I would like to give another perspective. My sister was accused (by some of my siblings and estranged mother) of the very same things - "acquiring" my father's car and taking money out of his account while he was ill.

The truth was my dad gave my sister the car because he prized it far more than it was worth, and wanted her to have it because she was caring for him. She couldn't wait to get rid of it and probably did sell it as soon as she could. We also emptied the house immediately - it made sense to do so because it filled the time between his passing and the funeral, and we were all around with not much else to do.

When she started caring for him, she had to reduce her shifts to the point she couldn't work at all. My dad (I know this because he told me) gave her his bank card to pay his bills and to withdraw some cash to help towards the housekeeping.

Once he was gone, my other sister and sister in law, neither of whom had seen my dad in the 18 months following his cancer diagnosis (they both live overseas), started asking for 'receipts" and "evidence" of where the money had gone. My mother, who had left two years before, was sending lawyer's letters regarding "recovery of possessions". It was absolutely horrible and I don't think the family will ever recover from that.

I am so sorry for your loss. Concentrate on dealing with your own grief and try to let go on all this about your brother. You've both lost a parent. Right now all these material things don't matter - they really don't.

Edited to add - The undertakers did not rush us at all for the money and were happy to wait a good few months until we had got things cleared. We may have been lucky but I think that's how they work. The only initial costs we had were for the notice in the paper and flowers.

bazneol

Thanks for all your responses. I will be contacting solicitor as soon as they open and I will take it from there.

The only thing I am certain of is that there is no policy to pay for funeral the policy was cancelled when she moved to caravan. I will not get any help with funeral costs I am not on benefits, I work. Brother gave up work temporarily to become full time carer, I doubt he is on correct benefits. Brother will possibly approach a cancer charity to pay, he did mention this.

Right from the start brother and myself discussed cost of funeral and said we would sell the car to pay for it, mother was there when the discussions took place, but because the disease was so advanced the levels of morphine ment she couldn't really fully understand what was going on. The last discussion with mother when I talked about what hymns she liked etc and her wishes she announced her pension fund would pay for funeral. I just thought she was confused but probably she had the idea planted in her head that the car wouldn't be needed to cover costs. Looking back I know when mother was well she knew her pension fund would not pay for it, why else would she have paid into a funeral policy if she thought it would be paid for.

If I accept that mother knew what she was doing and wanted to give brother the car knowing full well there would be no money to pay for funeral, then I have to accept my mother was acting very selfish with no thought for myself who has never taken a penny off her and always been there for her.

Lets hope the solicitor can provide some answers.

Mojisola

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow wrote: »

your mother can give her car to whoever she wants. It was hers to do what she wished with. She gave it to your brother and she gave you nothing. That must hurt. However, I can't see any fraud or criminal offence here.

If OP's mother was on high doses of morphine, she may not have had a clue what she doing when she signed the paperwork to hand the car over. She would have been in a vulnerable state and easily taken advantage of.

dirtysexymonkey

bazneol wrote: »

Thanks for all your responses. I will be contacting solicitor as soon as they open and I will take it from there.

The only thing I am certain of is that there is no policy to pay for funeral the policy was cancelled when she moved to caravan. I will not get any help with funeral costs I am not on benefits, I work. Brother gave up work temporarily to become full time carer, I doubt he is on correct benefits. Brother will possibly approach a cancer charity to pay, he did mention this.

Right from the start brother and myself discussed cost of funeral and said we would sell the car to pay for it, mother was there when the discussions took place, but because the disease was so advanced the levels of morphine ment she couldn't really fully understand what was going on. The last discussion with mother when I talked about what hymns she liked etc and her wishes she announced her pension fund would pay for funeral. I just thought she was confused but probably she had the idea planted in her head that the car wouldn't be needed to cover costs. Looking back I know when mother was well she knew her pension fund would not pay for it, why else would she have paid into a funeral policy if she thought it would be paid for.

If I accept that mother knew what she was doing and wanted to give brother the car knowing full well there would be no money to pay for funeral, then I have to accept my mother was acting very selfish with no thought for myself who has never taken a penny off her and always been there for her.

Lets hope the solicitor can provide some answers.

are you taking the !!!!? the woman was dying i think she had other things on her mind rather than worrying that you might be annoyed because you didnt inherit her car.

and as for you 'always being there for her' dont make me laugh. it was your "bad" brother that gave up his job, moved her into his home and cared for her in her dying months - not you.

this isnt about a car - its about your guilt about not being the proper daughter you think you should have been. you cant stand it that your brother gave up his job and cared for his dying mother and for whatever reason you now have decided that he only did that for a car.

instead of being so angry you might want to thank your brother for what he did for your mother, because you didnt do it.

bazneol

Are you taking the xx@!

Couldn't agree more mother was too worried about dieing to worry about who would get the car, so in answer to your response she most certainly would never have fetched up signing the car over, she had more important things on her mind.

I'm not guilty about not taking my mother in on the contrary. I admire people who can genuinly care for sick relatives with no motive other than love. Mother was admitted to a hospice and the medical staff didn't wish for her to leave they wanted to get medication right but my brother discharged her against there wishes.

The only thing I'm guilty of is not trusting my instincts and contacting Social Care and intervening and getting her away from him.

silvercar

Looking back I know when mother was well she knew her pension fund would not pay for it, why else would she have paid into a funeral policy if she thought it would be paid for

So there is a funeral policy?

Plus something in a pension fund?

Sounds like there is money for a funeral.

If not could it be that your mother or brother thought that there would be benefit or charity help for the funeral costs so it was a bit of a "waste" to use the car money for the funeral?

daska

silvercar wrote: »

So there is a funeral policy?

Plus something in a pension fund?

Sounds like there is money for a funeral.

If not could it be that your mother or brother thought that there would be benefit or charity help for the funeral costs so it was a bit of a "waste" to use the car money for the funeral?

No, Bazneol has already stated that the funeral policy was cancelled when her mother moved into the caravan. It's possible there might be a widower's payment from the pension fund (wouldn't count on it, Bazneol uses the term partner, not husband) but more likely that the will deals with the ownership of the caravan.

bazneol

Well the plot thickens. The solicitor doesn't hold a copy of the will and it is missing!

Brother is selling the car to pay for the funeral because I would not underwrite the undertakers bill and the undertaker would not go ahead without brother proving he can pay the bill as I have refused to sign anything. I had to sign a form for the garage giving my permission for brother to sell car. I've probably admitted the car belonged to him by doing this but the funeral needs paying for and it is the only way.

Like previous poster say it is hard to challenge the giving of a gift and I really can't be bothered.

Brothers son is dealing with probate banks, etc. He is just to kind anyone would think there was more to come, they certainly don't want me contacting anyone.

DUTR

bazneol wrote: »

Well the plot thickens. The solicitor doesn't hold a copy of the will and it is missing!

Brother is selling the car to pay for the funeral because I would not underwrite the undertakers bill and the undertaker would not go ahead without brother proving he can pay the bill as I have refused to sign anything. I had to sign a form for the garage giving my permission for brother to sell car. I've probably admitted the car belonged to him by doing this but the funeral needs paying for and it is the only way.

Like previous poster say it is hard to challenge the giving of a gift and I really can't be bothered.

Brothers son is dealing with probate banks, etc. He is just to kind anyone would think there was more to come, they certainly don't want me contacting anyone.

Glad to learn your Mum can have a good send off.