water softner help in chosing and is this true

Doc_N

numberwoman wrote: »

This seems to be exactly what I am looking for: non electric, single tank, and reasonably priced. This type has been hard to find. Interestingly, they are not included on the Kinetico website.
Did you end up buying one?
Has anyone bought one of these?

£650 (ish) doesn't seem out of the way, depending on what it does and how it performs. I know nothing about this one, though, and Kinetico seem to have almost hidden it - perhaps because it would take sales away from their other, more expensive, models.

Stockists seem few and far between, as against other Kinetico models, too - maybe for the same reasons.

Maybe someone on here will know more about it.

Chance89

isofa wrote: »

We are just finishing a new build and want to install a water softener, need a high flow rate one as it's a pressurised unvented HW system.

Had first shortlisted the Kinetico 2020 but having read independant sites, it seems it uses an awful lot of water to regenerate, literature says 0.22 or 0.3 kg of salt per regeneration and will use 18.9 litres (but actual tests from independent sites say this is 26 litres) to regenerate.

Names that are coming up for alternatives are: Harvey’s Softnetic, Ecowater ESM 11+, Hague 400 and Nuwave MD 160 or 260.

We are not bothered about the size of the device as can build the cupboard to fit in the utility. It's a 3 person household (possible 4 in a few years time) with 2 bathrooms, cloakroom, kitchen and utility.

This is a very long thread, so just asking if there are any current recommendations or shortlists. As we are metered, it would be good to keep water waste on regenerations down.

The figures you have quoted for the water usage of the Kinetico softener are actually lower than a lot of other softeners BUT it also returns a lot less softened water. For example if the Kinetico uses 19 litres of water per regen you get approx. 500 litres of softened water (@ 250ppm). Compare that to:

An Atlantis AT350: 30litres/regen = approx. 2000 litres of soft water (@ 250ppm)

or

A Monarch Midi: 59litres/regen = approx. 3000 litres of soft water

So for each softener if you compared them all at a usage of 60 litres you would return:

Kinetico: (3 regens = 60litres) 1500 litres of soft water
Atlantis: (2 regens = 60litres) 4000 litres of soft water
Monarch: (1 regen = 59litres) 3000 litres of soft water

All figures are approximate but you can see that the most expensive unit, the Kinetico, is the least efficient by a long way!!

128hdays

numberwoman wrote: »

Ok, so I have read the first 23 pages and then have skipped to this last page, but I am still confused. The 'timed' and 'metered' type, do they both need a power supply? I do not have a power supply and therefore want a non-electric type, but they seem to be mostly the twin tanks, which I don't want either, just want the single tank for the cheapest price. Is there a single tank non-electric one out there, and how does it do its regeneration compared to these 'timed' and 'metered' type?

Hi numberwoman,
I recently put in an EW Technologies metered system called a 606 model. The difference they told me is that the metered unit counts the litres of water that you use and only cleans iself out based on the amount you use. The timered units seem to clean themselves out automatically no matter how little or how much water you use.
I think they also mentioned that you can have a non electric option but you'll have to check with them as im not too sure.

onewhoasks

We like our Monarch Midi softener which we had fitted end of last year. Costed around £750 in total including fitting. I liked the price of the Monarch compared to other makes and it has a 7 year guarantee. A couple of people we know have this make too and have had no problems.

http://www.monarchwater.co.uk/products/ultimate-midi/

It's doing its job well on a bag of salt every couple of months or so.

The existing cold tap in the kitchen sink was bypassed to remain as our hard water drinking supply and that works for us.

A friend had a special filter tap fitted when they had their softener installed but says it costs them a fortune in filters.

ARCADIAN

Chance89 wrote: »

The figures you have quoted for the water usage of the Kinetico softener are actually lower than a lot of other softeners BUT it also returns a lot less softened water. For example if the Kinetico uses 19 litres of water per regen you get approx. 500 litres of softened water (@ 250ppm). Compare that to:

An Atlantis AT350: 30litres/regen = approx. 2000 litres of soft water (@ 250ppm)

or

A Monarch Midi: 59litres/regen = approx. 3000 litres of soft water

So for each softener if you compared them all at a usage of 60 litres you would return:

Kinetico: (3 regens = 60litres) 1500 litres of soft water
Atlantis: (2 regens = 60litres) 4000 litres of soft water
Monarch: (1 regen = 59litres) 3000 litres of soft water

All figures are approximate but you can see that the most expensive unit, the Kinetico, is the least efficient by a long way!!

This is very useful information. I am trying to find these figures on various water softeners but the technical sheets don`t give any.
Do you have to contact the manufacturers to get it?

ex_directory

After reading the last few pages of posts I have tried to collate info on the models most often commented on for a reasonable purchase price (I used £750 or less), namely the Tapworks AD15, Wrekin ECO15 and the Monarch Midi.

Summarising the models for everyones benefit!

Tapworks AD15 = £656 inc 22mm kit
- Ecowater value brand, same as ecowater except controller is not as good
- Water use per regeneration - 52 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: 1.0 - 1.9kg
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.7/4.76 bar
- Max flow rate (peak) 51.7 litre/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm 3333 litres
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 810x496x296mm
- Resin volume - 14 litres
- Warranty 2 years (parts), 0 years labour

Monarch Midi = £469.31 inc 22mm kit
- Water use per regeneration - 58 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: 1.0 - 1.7kg
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.5/5 bar
- Max flow rate (peak): 78 litres/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm ? litres = NOT FOUND ONLINE
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 575x465x275mm
- Resin volume - 14.7 litres
- Warranty 7 years (parts), 2 years labour

Wrekin ECO15 = £630 inc 22mm kit
- Water use per regeneration - 59 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: ? NOT FOUND ONLINE
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.5/8 bar
- Max flow rate (peak): 41.6 litres/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm 2500 litres
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 600x420x270mm
- Resin volume - 15 litres
- Warranty 5 years (parts), 1 years labour

In short they all look similar.

IMO, Monarch midi would seem to have the edge as is cheaper and better warranty and a bonus it is a bit more compact with same capacity but I would be prepared to go with any based on good reviews on real cost/length of service/continuous soft water over time.

Chance89

@ARCADIAN,

Some manufacturers quote these figures online and in there brochures others you have to phone and speak to their technical teams

Chance89

ex_directory wrote: »

After reading the last few pages of posts I have tried to collate info on the models most often commented on for a reasonable purchase price (I used £750 or less), namely the Tapworks AD15, Wrekin ECO15 and the Monarch Midi.

Summarising the models for everyones benefit!

Tapworks AD15 = £656 inc 22mm kit
- Ecowater value brand, same as ecowater except controller is not as good
- Water use per regeneration - 52 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: 1.0 - 1.9kg
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.7/4.76 bar
- Max flow rate (peak) 51.7 litre/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm 3333 litres
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 810x496x296mm
- Resin volume - 14 litres
- Warranty 2 years (parts), 0 years labour

Monarch Midi = £469.31 inc 22mm kit
- Water use per regeneration - 58 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: 1.0 - 1.7kg
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.5/5 bar
- Max flow rate (peak): 78 litres/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm ? litres = NOT FOUND ONLINE
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 575x465x275mm
- Resin volume - 14.7 litres
- Warranty 7 years (parts), 2 years labour

Wrekin ECO15 = £630 inc 22mm kit
- Water use per regeneration - 59 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: ? NOT FOUND ONLINE
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.5/8 bar
- Max flow rate (peak): 41.6 litres/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm 2500 litres
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 600x420x270mm
- Resin volume - 15 litres
- Warranty 5 years (parts), 1 years labour

In short they all look similar.

IMO, Monarch midi would seem to have the edge as is cheaper and better warranty and a bonus it is a bit more compact with same capacity but I would be prepared to go with any based on good reviews on real cost/length of service/continuous soft water over time.

Some really excellent information here. I just wanted to add the softener I personally have installed:

Atlantis AT210 = £466.73 Online
- Water use per regeneration - 60 litres
- Salt use per regeneration: 1.44kg
- Min/Max daytime pressure 1.7/5 bar
- Max flow rate (peak): 45 litres/minute
- Max softened water capacity @300ppm 2442litres
- Dimensions (hxdxw) 625x454x247mm
- Resin volume - 14litres
- Warranty 10 years (parts), 1 years labour

ey143

Some question from someone who will need to purchase a water softner in a few months:

1. If the unit stops work and needs to be sent back, is it easy to disconnect and post back?

2. If disconnected can you bypass the disconnected system so that the mains pressure directly feeds the house without the unit?

3. Can these units be used with water storage tank systems or are they only for mains pressured systems without storage tanks?

4. How many people here apart from the person who mentioned it above, have not connected the soft water supply to the kitchen sink? Is this a popular idea / bad idea? Is it not possible to have a small third tap which is the cold hard water tap but don't put a filter on there?

Thanks.

Doc_N

ey143 wrote: »

Some question from someone who will need to purchase a water softner in a few months:

1. If the unit stops work and needs to be sent back, is it easy to disconnect and post back?

2. If disconnected can you bypass the disconnected system so that the mains pressure directly feeds the house without the unit?

3. Can these units be used with water storage tank systems or are they only for mains pressured systems without storage tanks?

4. How many people here apart from the person who mentioned it above, have not connected the soft water supply to the kitchen sink? Is this a popular idea / bad idea? Is it not possible to have a small third tap which is the cold hard water tap but don't put a filter on there?

Thanks.

1 Very easy to disconnect - not so easy to send back, though, practically speaking, because of the size and weight. Also because you need to remove the salt and water. Not by any means impossible - just needs a little thought and effort.

2 Yes - provided that it's correctly fitted (which isn't in itself difficult at all for a competent plumber).

3 They can be used for both - I have used the same unit in houses with pressurised and non-pressurised systems. Just check the manufacturer's recommendations before you buy. Check also that your boiler is OK with softeners (I have little expertise on this point, but it does need checking because there can be a problem with some boiler types).

4 For the reasons given above, I would strongly advise that you keep a hard supply to the kitchen for drinking water. A third tap would be the perfect solution if the plumber can achieve it.