water softner help in chosing and is this true

Milmoore

moonrakerz wrote: »

The advertising for this thing is sailing very close to the wind...........

For a start, it is not a water softener in the true sense of that expression. You also have to buy replacement cartridges as well - bet there is only one source of supply - and one price.

The trouble is with this type of device is that no one will ever admit afterwards (having spent a few hundred quid) that it was a waste of money !
You are right to be sceptical

A conventional ion-exchange water softener works - end of story.
There is NO reason to spend any more than this on a softener (unless you have a large number of people in the household) - don't get conned into buying anything more "sophisticated" - you are paying for nothing.

That's really helpful - thank you.

I know someone that has had it - and they've noticed a difference in the water/ etc. But then again they've never had a water softener so on the grand scheme of things - who knows?!

Matt_Filterman

I think moonrakerz has hit the nail on the head with this one.. particularly regarding the cost of replacement cartridges. apparently you need one cartridge per person per year at a cost of £50 per cartridge.. For a family of four that's £200!.. and it doesn't actually truly soften the water, just reduces lime scale build up.
I would anticipate a real softener using about 1 bag of salt per month for a family of four in a very hard water area (300ppm+).. At about £8 per bag that works out at £96 a year.. and you'll get proper soft water too!

moonrakerz

Matt_Filterman wrote: »

At about £8 per bag that works out at £96 a year.. and you'll get proper soft water too!

.......and you will recoup all/most of that outlay in much reduced usage of soap, washing up liquid, detergent, softener, kitchen and bathroom cleaner, etc, etc , etc.............

Doc_N

moonrakerz wrote: »

.......and you will recoup all/most of that outlay in much reduced usage of soap, washing up liquid, detergent, softener, kitchen and bathroom cleaner, etc, etc , etc.............

Not to mention the eliminated damage to washing machines etc, and particularly the hot water tank.

Chunks

I have been considering going down the softener route for years but have limited space in the kitchen. I have concluded that I should now make space and get one.

I have also concluded that a small one (four in the house although we are all very clean...:)) with basic 'features' is all that's needed. To get the maximum benefit apart from the cold supply of drinking water, all other water uses should be 'supplied' via the softener.

The basic softener needs a mains supply (inlet) and connection to the house plumbing (outlet). Waste connection (for recharging) and jobs a goodun. With basic/good plumbing skills (and time!) an MSE should also be able to avoid the plumbing costs.

Assuming the above is correct, is there an obvious candidate?

moonrakerz

Chunks wrote: »

Assuming the above is correct, is there an obvious candidate?

See link in my post above; #528.

I have one of these machines at present; cheap, cheerful and effective. It fits inside a standard 450mm wide kitchen base unit, under a sink or drawer. See below (mine !)
There are 4 inputs/outputs. Water in and out. Waste outlet, for regeneration. Emergency overflow from salt tank.
This type also requires a mains electricity supply close by - my power pack has about a 6 ft cable on it so it doesn't have to be directly by the unit.


Mine feeds everything, except the outside tap. There is still some discussion about whether your drinking tap should be softened. I don't think there is a problem - the amount of sodium added to very hard water when it is softened is one third (per unit of volume) the legal limit for sodium in cows milk. I would agree with not using it for a baby's formula milk (they shouldn't have cow's milk either !)
That's up to you - but my kettle's interior is as shiny as the day I bought it ................

Doc_N wrote: »

Not to mention the eliminated damage to .................. particularly the hot water tank.

I have first hand experience of this. I had my h/w tank replaced in my last house after 18 years. When it was out the plumber (on my request) split it open - there was NO scale whatsoever on the inside. Before he removed it he said I might have to help him lift it out because of the likely weight of all the limescale inside !!



My usual warning follows::D

Don't buy a twin cylinder machine, they really are wasted money. They can cost three times as much, to buy, as a single cylinder machine and many of them use block salt which can cost 3 times as much as granular. (I am paying 20p/kilo for my granular) The reason they are "pushed" so much by many softener dealers is that they make more profit on them !

Chunks

Many thanks moonrakerz. Your picture is very helpful but I fear the unit will not fit my space due to height issues - I have a ceramic sink - a monster casting - that will restrict headroom. Is there a squat model maybe not as fine as your recommendation but fine enough? Sorry if this is old ground....

Chunks

moonrakerz

I think you would be hard pressed to find a unit smaller than that one. Of course, it doesn't have to go under the sink, it could go in any cupboard.

I was lucky with mine - I was starting from "bare walls" , so to some extent I could plan around the softener. I have all my valves/stop taps in the other half of the softener cupboard with hoses feeding under the kitchen units to all the appliances.

Chunks

Thanks again. I think I need to, well, rethink. I have other locations in mind that might be doable but it would require rerunning of pipe work etc. and that's problematic. The logical place is under the sink. I will look at the model suggested and try to figure out how to accommodate it.

cheers,

C

mad990diver

These things often get put under the sink by default because in most kitchens this is one of the few places where there is an 'obvious' space. It is not necessarily the "best place".

I sent one salesman packing because he wanted to put the softener in our hall cupboard and plumb half way across the kitchen from near the sink. Remembering these have an open salt water tank you will find a constant high humidity level around the softener, not what you want in your cloak cupboard. In the end I did a self fit and put it where I wanted, in a corner cupboard close to the rising main. A lot less pipework and occupying "dead" space in the back of a cupboard - winner!

My advice, find your rising main and look for a logical space to accommodate the softener nearby.

Softeners are great, I wouldn't be without one. Personally I always buy twin tank mechanical (I've had three in three different homes and never any problems) but if you are on a limited budget there's every reason to go for one of the many alternatives. They all do the job!

Good luck.