water softner help in chosing and is this true

moonrakerz

dmacdonald wrote: »

a Kinetico 2020 ...................... it cost me £1,100 in 1999).

B****y hell :eek::eek::eek: !!!!

Was that the gold or platinum plated version - or the solid silver one ???

These things really are the ultimate in hyped-up, over-priced consumer con tricks !!

For about one third of that price (in today's money) you could get one that does the job just as well and have £700 to spend on salt for the next 300 years .....................

neilh57

Hi all,

Wow what a good discussion.

I am really restricted on space and have seen the following slim water softener:

It's by eastmidlandswater dot com (emwc dot co dot uk)
Softeners and salt
Metered controlled softeners
Compact Meter Controlled Softener (EMD6)
£399.96


(sorry, not allowed to post links yet)

Has anyone got any thoughts about how good or bad this might be please?

Matt_Filterman

Hi neilh57.
I can't tell from the photo or text what valve this unit has fitted. From my experience you want to steer clear of something called the Enterprise valve.. If you can find out which valve this unit has fitted I might be able to give you some further guidance.
Matt

Rich_p

Hi all,
I have my eye on a refurbished waterside mc250 or mc350 that the seller claims has been fully serviced and fitted with a fleck valve. Should I still avoid it as the rest of the item contains waterside parts or should it be ok with the fleck valve? The seller claims the waterside valve is the problem with these units.
Thanks for any help.

Matt_Filterman

Hi Rich p
You can make quite a decent softener out of an old MC250 fitted with a Fleck valve so it could well be a good bet.. some of the Waterside softener cabinets were really well built and the resin/resin vessels were all pretty much industry standard.. it was just that Culligan valve fitted to the machine!!!!!
I'd certainly consider any softener fitted with a Fleck valve.. they tend to be bullet proof.
Matt

watersoftener_hell

Notes from trawling various websites and talking to various plumbers and BWT:

1) Difference between Permutit and Waterside softeners is the amount of resin - the Permutit has less resin so it needs to regenerate more frequently (consequently using more salt)

2) Waterside MC250 can be upgraded to an MC350 by (buying and) replacing the top unit, seals etc. Phone BWT for a list of vendors (or use Google)

3) Valve for MC350 is the same as the MC550. Difference between the units is the shape, the MC550 has 'mono-spherical resin' and various technical bits (that you should look at but could mostly ignore for a house with combi boiler + family of 4 + tablet, not block, salt)

4) It's possible to buy a bag of mono-spherical resin from various UK vendors (~ £60 + VAT + p&p). You Tube has a video of how to relace the resin should you want to do it yourself (relatively simple but fiddly and not something to be done in your kitchen, IMHO)

5) New 350 and 550 come with 5 yr guarantee and need to be serviced every 3 years

6) Resin in an MC250 that has not been serviced can't be "restored", even with resin restorer


Given the prices and the difference between prices and parts prices, I could make a living from restoring water softeners !! It takes a lot of research but it's really not that complicated.

I'm now wondering whether 'servicing' these units is more complex than flushing the system and adding resin restorer and replacing seals.

moonrakerz

watersoftener_hell wrote: »

5) New 350 and 550 come with 5 yr guarantee and need to be serviced every 3 years

Having had a (single cylinder) softener in various houses since the early 80s (I think !) I can say that the only service that my softener ever gets is a clean out of the salt tank when it gets a bit mucky - and even that isn't really necessary as any muck in there won't get into the resin tank anyway.

For any one to give a 5 year warranty on their product means one thing - they are pretty confident it won't go wrong. In case it does though, they make you pay for a service after 3 years ............I like it ! :rotfl:

Matt_Filterman

watersoftener_hell wrote: »

Notes from trawling various websites and talking to various plumbers and BWT:

1) Difference between Permutit and Waterside softeners is the amount of resin - the Permutit has less resin so it needs to regenerate more frequently (consequently using more salt)

2) Waterside MC250 can be upgraded to an MC350 by (buying and) replacing the top unit, seals etc. Phone BWT for a list of vendors (or use Google)

3) Valve for MC350 is the same as the MC550. Difference between the units is the shape, the MC550 has 'mono-spherical resin' and various technical bits (that you should look at but could mostly ignore for a house with combi boiler + family of 4 + tablet, not block, salt)

4) It's possible to buy a bag of mono-spherical resin from various UK vendors (~ £60 + VAT + p&p). You Tube has a video of how to relace the resin should you want to do it yourself (relatively simple but fiddly and not something to be done in your kitchen, IMHO)

5) New 350 and 550 come with 5 yr guarantee and need to be serviced every 3 years

6) Resin in an MC250 that has not been serviced can't be "restored", even with resin restorer


Given the prices and the difference between prices and parts prices, I could make a living from restoring water softeners !! It takes a lot of research but it's really not that complicated.

I'm now wondering whether 'servicing' these units is more complex than flushing the system and adding resin restorer and replacing seals.

This is just the point I've been making about these terrible softeners!.. You should never need to "upgrade" a softener valve, good ones last for between 10 and 20 years without any problem.. I've come across some MC250 valves that didn't even last that many weeks!
In 20 years I've changed the resin on domestic softeners twice and both times I felt it wasn't really required.

Bottom line.. there are lots of good water softeners out there.. and some absolute dogs!.. More importantly on this money saving web site.. some of the cheaper ones are far better than the more expensive ones!!

Milmoore

Hi All,

I've been reading through this thread (not all of it) and would love some advice on the whole water softener debate.

I've just moved into a property in herts (notoriously bad for hard water) and would love to get a softener fitted - for the main reason my skin does not like hard water! Obviously, the limescale issue is also one which sounds attractive.

I've been trawling through the web trying to find a water softener at the right price but i've also been told about this

Nocalc (google nocalc international not allowed to post links!)

The thing that worries me - is that it a) deposits Polyphosphate into the water and b) seems far too good to be true which automatically means it's probably not.

Pessimistic!

Has anyone heard of this? or better yet, anyone have something like this installed? Price wise i've been quoted 200 for installation and the product plus no salt so it certainly seems more attractive than £400+

Help would be much appreciated!

moonrakerz

The advertising for this thing is sailing very close to the wind...........

For a start, it is not a water softener in the true sense of that expression. You also have to buy replacement cartridges as well - bet there is only one source of supply - and one price.

The trouble is with this type of device is that no one will ever admit afterwards (having spent a few hundred quid) that it was a waste of money !
You are right to be sceptical

A conventional ion-exchange water softener works - end of story.
There is NO reason to spend any more than this on a softener (unless you have a large number of people in the household) - don't get conned into buying anything more "sophisticated" - you are paying for nothing.

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9271767&fh_location=//catal!!!1/en_GB/categories%3C%7B9372015%7D/categories%3C%7B9372046%7D/categories%3C%7B9372180%7D/specificationsProductType=water_softeners___filters/specificationsSpecificProductType=water_softeners&tmcampid=4&tmad=c&ecamp=cse_go&CAWELAID=266887986