water softner help in chosing and is this true

bazzie

Hi All!

£215 to labour to fit is steep I know but I got royally screwed then as mine charged £330! I paid £468 for the MIDI HE Softener so that totals £748 - I guess overall then it was kind of average total price?  (no 3 way tap at sink)

I am still not sure mine is properly set up or if something is up - according to Affinity Water, our water has a hardness of 375. The installer initially set the Water Hardness to 30.  After a couple of weeks I was still noticing that the water was not fully soft & did a test with the drop dye kit - it took 42 drops for the water in the test to turn dark green/blue. I then set the water hardness setting on the unit to 45 as per instructions.

Still I was seeing signs of limescale so after another few weeks, I bumped up the water hardness setting to 50 where it has been left since. This has improved things but there is still signs of limescale forming on surfaces.

Does this seem right & is something wrong - a setting of 50 is high if the official hardness number from the water company is 375 so how can one check if the unit is set up properly & is operating as it should or if something is wrong? The manual is very basic & offers  very little in terms of guidance.

How high should I set the hardness level to totally eliminate the scale?

Many Thanks!

jsinc

bazzie said:

Hi All!

£215 to labour to fit is steep I know but I got royally screwed then as mine charged £330! I paid £468 for the MIDI HE Softener so that totals £748 - I guess overall then it was kind of average total price?  (no 3 way tap at sink)

I am still not sure mine is properly set up or if something is up - according to Affinity Water, our water has a hardness of 375. The installer initially set the Water Hardness to 30.  After a couple of weeks I was still noticing that the water was not fully soft & did a test with the drop dye kit - it took 42 drops for the water in the test to turn dark green/blue. I then set the water hardness setting on the unit to 45 as per instructions.

Still I was seeing signs of limescale so after another few weeks, I bumped up the water hardness setting to 50 where it has been left since. This has improved things but there is still signs of limescale forming on surfaces.

Does this seem right & is something wrong - a setting of 50 is high if the official hardness number from the water company is 375 so how can one check if the unit is set up properly & is operating as it should or if something is wrong? The manual is very basic & offers  very little in terms of guidance.

How high should I set the hardness level to totally eliminate the scale?

Many Thanks!

£215 didn't seem too bad for several hours work, and plumber came recommended. £120 would be a great price around here. Tap was around £180. Affinity site suggests my total hardness is 343 mg/l and 36 setting was entered according to the initial drop test and left there - plumber said that's normal for the area.

Shouldn't have taken 42 drops to affect colour change in your meant-to-be soft water, or do you mean tested hard water again? Is the softener using up salt? Definitely don't have the bypass valve pressed the wrong way? Do you get the rotating fan icon on the display when soft water is being drawn (open a soft tap to check)? Off/on again? Have a system with cold water tank in loft - assume it can take some time before the entire system is 100% soft water?

Only been a couple of weeks for me and already noticed shower head not getting clogged and washing machine frothier with same amount of detergent so needed less. Haven't really looked around for signs of hard water, but noticeable when washing hands that takes ages to rinse soap off now. Planning to buy some reagent strips in a couple of weeks to test the level.

bazzie

jsinc said:

bazzie said:

Hi All!

£215 to labour to fit is steep I know but I got royally screwed then as mine charged £330! I paid £468 for the MIDI HE Softener so that totals £748 - I guess overall then it was kind of average total price?  (no 3 way tap at sink)

I am still not sure mine is properly set up or if something is up - according to Affinity Water, our water has a hardness of 375. The installer initially set the Water Hardness to 30.  After a couple of weeks I was still noticing that the water was not fully soft & did a test with the drop dye kit - it took 42 drops for the water in the test to turn dark green/blue. I then set the water hardness setting on the unit to 45 as per instructions.

Still I was seeing signs of limescale so after another few weeks, I bumped up the water hardness setting to 50 where it has been left since. This has improved things but there is still signs of limescale forming on surfaces.

Does this seem right & is something wrong - a setting of 50 is high if the official hardness number from the water company is 375 so how can one check if the unit is set up properly & is operating as it should or if something is wrong? The manual is very basic & offers  very little in terms of guidance.

How high should I set the hardness level to totally eliminate the scale?

Many Thanks!

£215 didn't seem too bad for several hours work, and plumber came recommended. £120 would be a great price around here. Tap was around £180. Affinity site suggests my total hardness is 343 mg/l and 36 setting was entered according to the initial drop test and left there - plumber said that's normal for the area.

Shouldn't have taken 42 drops to affect colour change in your meant-to-be soft water, or do you mean tested hard water again? Is the softener using up salt? Definitely don't have the bypass valve pressed the wrong way? Do you get the rotating fan icon on the display when soft water is being drawn (open a soft tap to check)? Off/on again? Have a system with cold water tank in loft - assume it can take some time before the entire system is 100% soft water?

Only been a couple of weeks for me and already noticed shower head not getting clogged and washing machine frothier with same amount of detergent so needed less. Haven't really looked around for signs of hard water, but noticeable when washing hands that takes ages to rinse soap off now. Planning to buy some reagent strips in a couple of weeks to test the level.

Hi,

Thanks for the input - when I did the water test again 2 weeks after installation which took 42 drops to turn dark green/blue, it was water from a Soft Water Tap. 

Initially the unit was not using to much salt it seemed - doing a cycle every few days but now when set a 50 it seems to be doing so every 2 or 3 days which seems excessive?

The bypass valve seems to be fitted correctly & is proper position fro softened water (very stiff to move though - will hardly budge!)

Just checked with a couple of Soft Water taps & do get the rotating icon on the MIDI-HE Screen - did not know about that so thanks for letting me know!

There is no tank in the loft as we have a Storage Combi Boiler. 

Any ideas as to why this unit needs such a high setting? I think I will get some strips as well - reviews on some seem to suggest they can be flaky?

Many Thanks!

jsinc

bazzie said:

Hi,

Thanks for the input - when I did the water test again 2 weeks after installation which took 42 drops to turn dark green/blue, it was water from a Soft Water Tap. 

Initially the unit was not using to much salt it seemed - doing a cycle every few days but now when set a 50 it seems to be doing so every 2 or 3 days which seems excessive?

The bypass valve seems to be fitted correctly & is proper position fro softened water (very stiff to move though - will hardly budge!)

Just checked with a couple of Soft Water taps & do get the rotating icon on the MIDI-HE Screen - did not know about that so thanks for letting me know!

There is no tank in the loft as we have a Storage Combi Boiler. 

Any ideas as to why this unit needs such a high setting? I think I will get some strips as well - reviews on some seem to suggest they can be flaky?

Many Thanks!

Sorry don't understand why you'd need more drops after 2 weeks in soft water than at the start in hard water. But meant to test hard water.

We did a regeneration on installation. Haven't heard one since as they're at 2am but it's using up salt.

Yeah the icon thing isn't in the guide but worked it out. Assume that's what they mean by 'detects leaks'.

Think I'd try the drop kit one more time. As the guide says run hard water and rinse the beaker with it and test hard water. We had issues first time because there was soft water in the pipes which messed up the test. Or maybe try a different test to check the soft. Or call installer/Monarch to ask?

bazzie

jsinc said:

bazzie said:

Hi,

Thanks for the input - when I did the water test again 2 weeks after installation which took 42 drops to turn dark green/blue, it was water from a Soft Water Tap. 

Initially the unit was not using to much salt it seemed - doing a cycle every few days but now when set a 50 it seems to be doing so every 2 or 3 days which seems excessive?

The bypass valve seems to be fitted correctly & is proper position fro softened water (very stiff to move though - will hardly budge!)

Just checked with a couple of Soft Water taps & do get the rotating icon on the MIDI-HE Screen - did not know about that so thanks for letting me know!

There is no tank in the loft as we have a Storage Combi Boiler. 

Any ideas as to why this unit needs such a high setting? I think I will get some strips as well - reviews on some seem to suggest they can be flaky?

Many Thanks!

Sorry don't understand why you'd need more drops after 2 weeks in soft water than at the start in hard water. But meant to test hard water.

We did a regeneration on installation. Haven't heard one since as they're at 2am but it's using up salt.

Yeah the icon thing isn't in the guide but worked it out. Assume that's what they mean by 'detects leaks'.

Think I'd try the drop kit one more time. As the guide says run hard water and rinse the beaker with it and test hard water. We had issues first time because there was soft water in the pipes which messed up the test. Or maybe try a different test to check the soft. Or call installer/Monarch to ask?

Hi,

I tested the water (from a soft tap) to see how soft the water was after 2 weeks & it took 42 drops! The installer had previously set it to 30 but I did not see him do the test so assumed it was all OK. It was only when I noticed that scaling was still happening that I did the test on the sift water to see how soft it actually was - did not expect it to take 42 drops!

If I have enough drops left, I will do another test - one on the hard water kitchen tap & another on a soft water tap & see what the results show - keep tuned!

Many Thanks!

djh

Hi ,
I would like to install a Water Softener in our new property following downsizing.I have experience of Permutit p*-65  which I managed to keep going for around 12 years+ but had various problems with the control valve not taking brine from the tank.I then installed a Atlantis refurbed unit with a Fleck control valve which was trouble free (6 years+) until I moved.
I may well go for another Atlantis but I am trying to find other softeners that use Fleck .Any recommendations?.
I will need a  high flow rate as we have a pressurised indirect unvented Santon Premier Plus hot water storage cylinder.

csgohan4

djh said:

Hi ,
I would like to install a Water Softener in our new property following downsizing.I have experience of Permutit p*-65  which I managed to keep going for around 12 years+ but had various problems with the control valve not taking brine from the tank.I then installed a Atlantis refurbed unit with a Fleck control valve which was trouble free (6 years+) until I moved.
I may well go for another Atlantis but I am trying to find other softeners that use Fleck .Any recommendations?.
I will need a  high flow rate as we have a pressurised indirect unvented Santon Premier Plus hot water storage cylinder.

Have a look at the 112 pages, I started from there and chose my own

saayinla

Hi All,

After researching I came across the MIDI HE as the one that fits my needs and then I came across this thread but I have to admit I haven't read the entire 112 pages.

My question is I want to buy from buyaparcel on ebay (Monarch Midi HE FreeFlow Water Softener Ultimate Series - 15mm Hoses + 10kg Salt) with an ebay Voucher comes down to £574 is this a good price?

Plan is to get my Plumber to fit.

Thanks in advance.

bazzie

saayinla said:

Hi All,

After researching I came across the MIDI HE as the one that fits my needs and then I came across this thread but I have to admit I haven't read the entire 112 pages.

My question is I want to buy from buyaparcel on ebay (Monarch Midi HE FreeFlow Water Softener Ultimate Series - 15mm Hoses + 10kg Salt) with an ebay Voucher comes down to £574 is this a good price?

Plan is to get my Plumber to fit.

Thanks in advance.

Hi saayinla,

You have probably read that I bought the Monarch MIDI HE & tbh, I wish I had not. I got swayed by the good looks & so called high flow hoses etc. The Monarch Warranty really is not what they claim - they make it sound like it is all encompassing but after 3 visits from their engineers (mine was originally replaced after it kept filling up with water all the time) they told me the main, most important & costly part is NOT covered under their two year warranty.

They will honour everything else (all the cheap parts) within the 2 year warranty including call outs but they always state that if they do not find any faults and/or something not covered in the warranty then they will charge a £125 call out charge plus costs of parts plus VAT.

The unit itself really does need to be (at least mine does) put at a very high setting - near maximum to soften the water properly despite the hardness test stating it should be lower - this according to Monarch's own setting guidelines. This means it goes through an awfully large amount of salt very quickly & the unit runs more often than it should.

To give context, there are only two people in our house - we only take showers & use very limited use of the home water - imagine if we were an average or large size family with much more water usage.

My advice is to buy another brand tbh.

saayinla

bazzie said:

saayinla said:

Hi All,

After researching I came across the MIDI HE as the one that fits my needs and then I came across this thread but I have to admit I haven't read the entire 112 pages.

My question is I want to buy from buyaparcel on ebay (Monarch Midi HE FreeFlow Water Softener Ultimate Series - 15mm Hoses + 10kg Salt) with an ebay Voucher comes down to £574 is this a good price?

Plan is to get my Plumber to fit.

Thanks in advance.

Hi saayinla,

You have probably read that I bought the Monarch MIDI HE & tbh, I wish I had not. I got swayed by the good looks & so called high flow hoses etc. The Monarch Warranty really is not what they claim - they make it sound like it is all encompassing but after 3 visits from their engineers (mine was originally replaced after it kept filling up with water all the time) they told me the main, most important & costly part is NOT covered under their two year warranty.

They will honour everything else (all the cheap parts) within the 2 year warranty including call outs but they always state that if they do not find any faults and/or something not covered in the warranty then they will charge a £125 call out charge plus costs of parts plus VAT.

The unit itself really does need to be (at least mine does) put at a very high setting - near maximum to soften the water properly despite the hardness test stating it should be lower - this according to Monarch's own setting guidelines. This means it goes through an awfully large amount of salt very quickly & the unit runs more often than it should.

To give context, there are only two people in our house - we only take showers & use very limited use of the home water - imagine if we were an average or large size family with much more water usage.

My advice is to buy another brand tbh.

Many thanks for your response and time taken to post your experience sadly I havent seen your 

So back to the drawing board for me. But Can I ask how hard is your water at the moment?

According to Thames water mine is "The level of calcium carbonate in your water zone is 314 ppm." I haven't actually tested it myself.

I am also looking at  the Kinetico Kube 1 from Costco as it seems to have lots of good reviews also, I thought going for the ones that uses mains electric might have some impact on the water flow.