water softner help in chosing and is this true

malc_b

Insulation won't keep above freezing if you don't have a heat leak from the house. For a cold water tank in the loft you insulate over the tank but not underneath it. That way heat leaks through the ceiling to keep the tank from freezing. If you putting this cabinet against a modern house wall, U value say 0.3, then you have the back of the cabinet as a leak in but the other 5 sides as a leak out. So if the back is say area A and the other 5 sides 3A and the U value of the cabinet is also 0.3 (i.e. inches thick walls) then at say -10C outside, 20C in house, you get:


Watts = U x A x (T2-T1)
Watts = 0.3 x A x (20-Tcab)
Watts = 0.3 x 3A x (Tcab -(-10))
0.3 x A x (20-Tcab) = 0.3 x 3A x (Tcab +10)
20-Tcab = 3 x (Tcab +10)
20-30 = 3 x Tcab
Tcab = -3.3C i.e. water softener freezes, at least in the other pipework, brine tank should be ok.


A modern house is well insulated so any cabinet relying on leakage from the house would have be massively thick. 75mm of thermal insulation board at 0.022 W/mK is a U value of 0.293 for example so your looking for perhaps 4 in walls of the best insulation in the cabinet.

r4w

Thanks @malc_b for all the calculations.. you lost me there but I trust you with that.
My house is a new build, so I'm not expecting it's going to provide much heat to the external wall.
Furthermore, I'm not really convinced to leave a water softener outside so I'm looking for alternatives.
I'm waiting for a Monarch seller to come back to me with some quotes, but so far everyone is well over £1400 (Minimax, TwinTec, Kinetico)

Doc_N

r4w wrote: »

Thanks @malc_b for all the calculations.. you lost me there but I trust you with that.
My house is a new build, so I'm not expecting it's going to provide much heat to the external wall.
Furthermore, I'm not really convinced to leave a water softener outside so I'm looking for alternatives.
I'm waiting for a Monarch seller to come back to me with some quotes, but so far everyone is well over £1400 (Minimax, TwinTec, Kinetico)

That's crazy money - look through the thread for perfectly good alternatives at a much lower price, even taking installation into account.

Oo2b

Hi everyone

I'm a 4 bed, 2 bathrooms mid terrace in London with decent combi boiler and reasonabe pressure in loft en suite.

That said as you would expect pressure drops when showering and someone opens up a tap which can be annoying. From what I have read above, I "get" the avoid overpriced twin aspect,but am looking to make sure I understand what I've read. If I go for a non electric single, it could start its regeneration at any time which might be annoying but doesn't last very long (albeit if you're knackered and showering before bed, it could break you!).

The alternative is an electric one where there is a timer that you can set so it only regenerates at specific times. Have I understood this correctly?

If so the Monarch midi seemed like a good choice although it's not the very cheapest? Any feedback would be very welcome.

Many thanks oo2b

csgohan4

Oo2b wrote: »

Hi everyone

I'm a 4 bed, 2 bathrooms mid terrace in London with decent combi boiler and reasonabe pressure in loft en suite.

That said as you would expect pressure drops when showering and someone opens up a tap which can be annoying. From what I have read above, I "get" the avoid overpriced twin aspect,but am looking to make sure I understand what I've read. If I go for a non electric single, it could start its regeneration at any time which might be annoying but doesn't last very long (albeit if you're knackered and showering before bed, it could break you!).

The alternative is an electric one where there is a timer that you can set so it only regenerates at specific times. Have I understood this correctly?

If so the Monarch midi seemed like a good choice although it's not the very cheapest? Any feedback would be very welcome.

Many thanks oo2b

I use the monarch Solo ultra and it's fine when it regenerates and no issues with loss of flow when using shower, plus it's not electric so bonus

Oo2b

Okay.,thanks. That's a dual cylinder one I see?

csgohan4

Oo2b wrote: »

Okay.,thanks. That's a dual cylinder one I see?

yes it is, I bought it from a plumbing merchant and got a plumber to install, so much cheaper than the 1k plus being pegged around here

rdesouza

sounds like its the Monarch Midi all the way!

Doc_N

Just a thought, given that this is something of a go-to thread for quite a few people considering purchasing a softener: how about people feeding back on what they actually purchased after reading it all? It's a very long thread, and a few actual examples might be helpful.

I'll kick off with our Tapworks AD11, which I've mentioned a few times on the thread.

We've had it for almost 7 years now (costing just over £400 at the time). It's been faultless in all that time, and had no servicing at all. I figure servicing costs at around £80 a year would have cost more than a replacement machine by now, and in reality it's little more than a health check.

This, and the other Tapworks models, have been replaced by a new model range now, but I'd buy an equivalent without much thought. The AD11 was a slightly modified version of a much more expensive Ecowater machine, and I'm guessing that the new range will be too. Tapworks and Ecowater are both divisions of the same company, and in the past the models sold have been almost identical, electrically and mechanically. Ecowater sells at high prices to a particular market - Tapworks sell at much lower prices to rather more savvy customers, but the machines are very much the same.

I'm not advertising Tapworks (or Ecowater) - I have no connection with them - but I do recognise value and I've had good experiences with both over quite a long time.

Anybody else got a softener to recommend? Or recommend to avoid?

Magicbeard

Has anyone else been bombarded recently with flyers from Harvey water softeners ? We had 2 in the last month.
I asked around a few neighbors who had water softeners and all said to avoid Harvey water softeners. The company was bought out recently by another softener company called culligan. They have embarked on a big marketing campaign in the UK and pushing out referrals to a team of aggressive salesmen who will visit your home, try and sell you a water softener + a whole load of accessories and services that you don't need then bully you into signing a contract there and then. More of a concern came from a plumbing colleague who advised me that over 20% of Harvey machines fail before the warranty period expires. Apparently there is a known defect inside and they are struggling to keep up with costumer returns.  Definitely one to avoid.
Anyone else had problems with Harvey water softeners ?