What happened to cheap tyres?

jase1

Notmyrealname wrote: »

Around here deer have a nasty habit of appearing from nowhere. I'd stop, you'd be sliding off the road...

Given that I have four brand new mid-range Italian (Marangoni) winter tyres on my main vehicle currently, that won't be happening. Indeed they seem to have significantly more grip than a colleague's Pirelli/Avon combo.

However, the second car, which has brand-new Maxxis budgets on the front, and 6mm Admiral budgets on the back, has not given me cause for concern -- and I don't hang around on the twisties. Oh, and we get the sheep running into the road lark on the tops of the Pennines as well.....

jase1

Notmyrealname wrote: »

Difference between BRAND NEW budget, medium and premium tyres:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSIfuZoaFOk&feature=related

Budget tyre almost going straight on at a corner with a load of understeer and squealing as it loses grip. What a surprise.

Autocar budget tyre wet weather braking test from 2009. A difference of over 10 metres or 33ft from the Continentals to the worst budgets at just 50MPH. What do you think the difference would be at 70?



But what the heck, they're all the same eh despite the reams of test results showing different? And when you pile into the back of the car that had better tyres than you and pulled up quicker, at least you can say you saved a few quid on the rubber as they take your car off to the scrapyard....

Firstly, you'll note that the Nankangs were within a metre and a half of the Contis costing twice as much, less than 5% which is within the margin of error for a test such as this and probably no worse than a number of "premium" products.

Secondly, just because one tyre does not perform as well as another does not make that tyre dangerous per se. There will be other tyres that will post stopping distances superior to the Contis -- does this make the Contis "unsafe"? Of course it doesn't. And I have posted links in the past demonstrating the reduced performance of worn-but-legal tyres -- yet your position on that seems rather more dismissive judging by previous posts. Why is that?

Notmyrealname

jase1 wrote: »

And I have posted links in the past demonstrating the reduced performance of worn-but-legal tyres -- yet your position on that seems rather more dismissive judging by previous posts. Why is that?

First hand experience of power sliding out of a roundabout on brand new cheap 185/70x13 "National Tyres 4 for £130" budget tyres in a 1970's classic car with only 78 BHP when it was new. I was driving round the roundabouts at normal speeds only accelerating normally out of the roundabout on a sunny summers day and it wasn't even just the one roundabout. When I changed them to Conti-Eco 3's I drove round and round one of those roundabouts at 40MPH and it wouldn't break loose although I did have to hang onto the steering wheel as the body roll was really something to see.

Nowadays I have Kumho KU31 fitted to my Mondy. I've had Pirelli P6000's, Continetal Sport etc and the Kumhos don't seem that much different. I have no problem with mid-range but a lot of those budget tyres are really really bad and I can only say that if you don't notice you drive around like Miss Daisy and are one of those people who would slow down on a slight bend.

mikey72

Notmyrealname wrote: »

First hand experience of power sliding out of a roundabout on brand new cheap 185/70x13 "National Tyres 4 for £130" budget tyres in a 1970's classic car with only 78 BHP when it was new. I was driving round the roundabouts at normal speeds only accelerating normally out of the roundabout on a sunny summers day and it wasn't even just the one roundabout. When I changed them to Conti-Eco 3's I drove round and round one of those roundabouts at 40MPH and it wouldn't break loose although I did have to hang onto the steering wheel as the body roll was really something to see.

Nowadays I have Kumho KU31 fitted to my Mondy. I've had Pirelli P6000's, Continetal Sport etc and the Kumhos don't seem that much different. I have no problem with mid-range but a lot of those budget tyres are really really bad and I can only say that if you don't notice you drive around like Miss Daisy and are one of those people who would slow down on a slight bend.

Kumhos are a good example of a mid price tyre, now made in a chinese factory, and trading on a name for a premium price. They are good tyres, no doubt about it, but no better than a lot of other tyre brands made there now.

Most premium tyres are being out sourced to chinese manufacture now, and they certainly are the best nation at reverse engineering, and copying western technology.

alastairq

Around here deer have a nasty habit of appearing from nowhere. I'd stop, you'd be sliding off the road...

No they don't!

I doubt you would!

No I won't!

4 of the cheapest tyres I could get, all different, apart from size.

alastairq

You continue to save £30 and I'll continue to be able to stop 30ft earlier than you can and maintain better control of my vehicle if I have to make a sudden change of direction.

I'll save a whole lot more than that!

No you won't!

No you won't!


[4 of the cheapest tyres I could get, all different, apart from size.]

jase1

jase1 wrote: »

And I have posted links in the past demonstrating the reduced performance of worn-but-legal tyres -- yet your position on that seems rather more dismissive judging by previous posts. Why is that?

Notmyrealname wrote: »

First hand experience of power sliding out of a roundabout on brand new cheap 185/70x13 "National Tyres 4 for £130" budget tyres in a 1970's classic car with only 78 BHP when it was new. I was driving round the roundabouts at normal speeds only accelerating normally out of the roundabout on a sunny summers day and it wasn't even just the one roundabout. When I changed them to Conti-Eco 3's I drove round and round one of those roundabouts at 40MPH and it wouldn't break loose although I did have to hang onto the steering wheel as the body roll was really something to see.

Nowadays I have Kumho KU31 fitted to my Mondy. I've had Pirelli P6000's, Continetal Sport etc and the Kumhos don't seem that much different. I have no problem with mid-range but a lot of those budget tyres are really really bad and I can only say that if you don't notice you drive around like Miss Daisy and are one of those people who would slow down on a slight bend.

So you don't have an answer for the specific question you quoted then.

I don't disagree that ultra-budget tyres are inferior, but my response is more nuanced than that. Firstly, I've never come across a new tyre that I considered unsafe, just annoyingly limited, and secondly, the truth is that not every budget tyre is built the same. The Maxxis tyres I referred to were in fact the cheapest on the market (fortuitously -- I wouldn't generally buy the cheapest but these have a fairly good reputation), but as they have a softish compound (Treadwear rating of 300) the wet grip is acceptable.

Notmyrealname

alastairq wrote: »

No they don't!

Really? So driving down a country road in the dark you get plenty of advance warning?

Just passed your driving test or don't you drive where there are deer?

Notmyrealname

jase1 wrote: »

So you don't have an answer for the specific question you quoted then.

I don't disagree that ultra-budget tyres are inferior, but my response is more nuanced than that. Firstly, I've never come across a new tyre that I considered unsafe, just annoyingly limited, and secondly, the truth is that not every budget tyre is built the same. The Maxxis tyres I referred to were in fact the cheapest on the market (fortuitously -- I wouldn't generally buy the cheapest but these have a fairly good reputation), but as they have a softish compound (Treadwear rating of 300) the wet grip is acceptable.

You buy what you want, I'll buy what I want. I do 20k a year and they seem to be just fine for me. I've had enough experiences of budget tyres not to ever want to put them on a car I or any of my family will drive or be in if I have any control over it. Tyres, brakes, steering and suspension aren't things you want to gamble on just to save a couple of quid as they're the things that keep you on the road.

grizzly1911

Notmyrealname wrote: »

Really? So driving down a country road in the dark you get plenty of advance warning?

Just passed your driving test or don't you drive where there are deer?

I had a Bambi come out from the hard shoulder into lane 1 as Iwas coming down the M6 at around 80 in lane 2 luckily he jumped back on reflex. Somehow I don't think the rubber would have made much difference.

Straight I up - I said on reflexto my OH,Oh Dear, which was remarkably polite for me.

Guess if you know there may be deer around you should drive at an appropriate speed.