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Falkland Islands under threat once more - huge oil reserves in peril
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The "rust buckets" we sold them were the same Type 42 destroyers we had with the, at the time, fairly state of the art sea dart missile system: it was the most up to date area air defence missile we had in service
Did Sheffield and Coventry have those "state of the art" sea darts?
Good job we didn't let them have any Rapier "state of the art" missile systems."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Did Sheffield and Coventry have those "state of the art" sea darts?
Good job we didn't let them have any Rapier "state of the art" missile systems.
They did, & when it was doing what it was designed to do it was very good (about 7 kills & forced the Argentines to operate at low level & thus burn more fuel/have weapon fusing problems/enter the range of other weapon systems).
Unfortunatly, as aluded to before, it (and most of our naval equipment) was designed to fight the USSR & so wasn't built to stop exocet, a sea-skimming missile as oposed to the Russion high level missile systems.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »I wasn't really thinking about ubeing shot down just an accident.
Does it matter?
I understood you point to be that politicians would decide not to try/abandon any attempt to reinforce the islands becasue of public outrage at the loss of life on losing an aircraft full of troops (be that accident or ememy action)
Either way they already accept that risk both in Afganistan/Iraq and the Falklands0 -
They did, & when it was doing what it was designed to do it was very good (about 7 kills & forced the Argentines to operate at low level & thus burn more fuel/have weapon fusing problems/enter the range of other weapon systems).
Unfortunatly, as aluded to before, it (and most of our naval equipment) was designed to fight the USSR & so wasn't built to stop exocet, a sea-skimming missile as oposed to the Russion high level missile systems.
From what i have read in various historical accounts across several publications it wasn't that good. Wikipeadia seems to confirm my memory
I agree with you that it wasn't designed for the threat it was put up against, or sited in the best place. It was no doubt state of the art when envisaged and procured more than 20 years previously. With so many of these systems they are out of date before they are tested in "real" conditions. The decision and procurement lifecycles being way too long. This has been shown time and time again even in the more recent conflicts you have mentioned.
The Harrier, whilst having its own issues seems to have faired well in a variety of roles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier_missile
"Later analysis was less rosy, indicating as few as four enemy aircraft were downed.[6] Only one Argentine aircraft, a Dagger A of FAA Grupo 6, can be confirmed as a Rapier kill, ...The other three, ......, were subjected to the full force of the San Carlos Air Defences, with claims going to Sea Wolf, Sea Cat, Blowpipe & Small Arms as well as T Battery. "Within the total only five Argentine aircraft might have been shot down by Rapier, and, as originally noted by Ethell and Price, only one of these was certain, with two probables and two possibles. Similar discrepancies arose over other weapons systems, notably Blowpipe (one confirmed kill as against nine confirmed and two probables in the White Paper) and Sea Cat (zero to one against eight confirmed and two probables in the White Paper). […] This confirmation that MoD had exaggerated, however unwittingly, the capabilities of Rapier was deemed to be political dynamite. It was observed that if this assessment became publicly known it 'could have a serious adverse effects on sales' prospects for Rapier, which is the staple revenue-earner for BAe's Dynamic Group."[7]"
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »
Don't dispute we sold secondhand rust buckets to them, but not state of the art missile systems with a likley target in mind.
My real point was that what usually gets all our forces through is the indoctrinated training and getting themselves out of the carp time ofter time, despite "enthusiastic" leadership.
Actually we built them several brand new frigates and supplied them complete with the missile systems.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Did Sheffield and Coventry have those "state of the art" sea darts?
Good job we didn't let them have any Rapier "state of the art" missile systems.
Yes they did and the General Belgrano had anti submarine defences installed.0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »My understanding at the time and from much reading of books by prominent military figures since is that we were lucky to retake the Falklands. A lot of it was done on a wing and a prayer and determination by some gritty individuals pushing things to the limits.
Whilst I doubt the Argentinians will invade again they can make holding them very very costly and that is ultimately what will seal their fate, sooner rather than later, if there isn't "real" oil down there.
As a young 18 yrs old i was down there and believe me when you hear we were close to losing it,
I look back now and think how luck played a major part in the war and how inefficient officers nearly lost it due to really bad planning
No one knew what was where and how much until after the war..The ships were loaded with some real crap stuff..I spent three years down there in the end..I even had a girlfriend from the locals..bygone days dont you just love them,,
I think our battle hardened troops of today would wipe the floor with them now after ten years of hard war..It is nice to see the value of your house going up'' Why ?
Unless you are planning to sell up and not live anywhere, I can;t see the advantage.
If you are planning to upsize the new house will cost more.
If you are planning to downsize your new house will cost more than it should
If you are trying to buy your first house its almost impossible.0 -
It would be interesting to see the effect of apaches in this scenario, I think if we had secured the air thesebcopters would win the war. I remember the us marine helecopter liaison officer for our marines was dead against apache and favoured cobras. He stated cobras were far cheaper with interchangeable parts from heuies and most importantly didn't rust in sea water unlike the apaches.:exclamatiScams - Shared Equity, Shared Ownership, Newbuy, Firstbuy and Help to Buy.
Save our Savers
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Yes they did and the General Belgrano had anti submarine defences installed.
Me thinks sea dart was supposed to hit things that flew, wonder if they came with any warranty.
If a nuclear HKS couldn't take out a 40+ year old battle ship I would be seriously worried why our hard earned pennies are being spent."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Me thinks sea dart was supposed to hit things that flew, wonder if they came with any warranty.
If a nuclear HKS couldn't take out a 40+ year old battle ship I would be seriously worried why our hard earned pennies are being spent.
But the General Belgrano had anti-submarine defences, just the same as our ships had anti-missile missiles. Am I wrong?0
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