I thought bad references were illegal?!

tomjonesrules

JonathanStewart wrote: »

but according to you, the employer is allowed to say these things, if they have documentary evidence to back it up?

so what gives?

The employer would not have evidence to back up the statement you describe!

SarEl

oki1875 wrote: »

I though they simply could not give me a bad reference... I was so wrong..

OK - I am going to try to ignore the children now and just talk to the grown ups. I asked you previously, but I admit the answer might have got lost in the silliness that is going on - what did your "bad reference" say and why did the employer say it was unsatisfactory. I am trying to help you here, but I can't see the wood for the tress with this idiot JonathanStewart clogging up the thread with his half-arsed ramblings. If you want to PM me and tell me then at least we can have an adult conversation and see if there is anything that can be done to support you.

kiwi07

JonathanStewart wrote: »

we dont even know if they were dismissed or not yet!

In my case, I was not dismissed, I just failed 6 months probationary period. They did not confirm my post.

Torry_Quine

oki1875 wrote: »

In my case, I was not dismissed, I just failed 6 months probationary period. They did not confirm my post.

Then as you didn't say this when filling out the application it looks suspect when it comes up in the reference. Also what did you give as a reason for leaving the previous job as surely they asked. It would be better to have said that your post wasn't continued after probation and give your side but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

kiwi07

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Then as you didn't say this when filling out the application it looks suspect when it comes up in the reference. Also what did you give as a reason for leaving the previous job as surely they asked. It would be better to have said that your post wasn't continued after probation and give your side but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Surely, i could not put as a reason for leaving "Unsuccessful probationary period". I would not have been invited for a job interview and my application would have never been considered.... I just left it blank. What do you think I could say in my case??

Torry_Quine

oki1875 wrote: »

Surely, i could not put as a reason for leaving "Unsuccessful probationary period". I would not have been invited for a job interview and my application would have never been considered.... I just left it blank. What do you think I could say in my case??

That's exactly what I would put, it's the truth and as you've now found it will come out. A close relative was dismissed for gross misconduct and always puts this down and did get called for interview and did get a job. Always explained fully at interview so the reference wouldn't be a big shock.

LittleVoice

oki1875 wrote: »

In my case, I was not dismissed, I just failed 6 months probationary period. They did not confirm my post.

That does mean you were dismissed. They had to dismiss you or your employment would have continued.

dandelionclock30

No it was an unsucessfull probationary period.
In these circumstances what you could do is put in the reason for leaving box-6 month contract ended, and then discuss if they offer you a job or leave it blank and then discuss later, or put would like to discuss at interview.
Even the jobcentre said to me, you dont put dismissed for misconduct as reason for leaving,there are ways in which to do this without outright lying. I wouldnt put unsucessfull probationary period myself, as I also dont think they would call you for interview.
Go through your dismissal letter and highlight the points of why they didnt keep you on. Then write them out and if they are correct in your opininon say what you have learned and what you would do differently in this situation now.You can use examples from your current Vol Work to say how you have moved on etc. If some things are incorrect, you can say in your opinion......and why. If there was something major going on like a bereavement or a relationship breakdown etc, say how the situation has now improved through counselling etc.
If they make you an offer this is the time to tell them and ask to speak to the recruiting person to discuss the offer.Preferably go in to see them.
I have been told by companies that you dont explain at interview, theres not enough time, explain if they make you an offer. However thats personal choice, some people would prefer to discuss at the interview. Its upto you.
This is what people have advised me to do.
If you still cant get anywhere then as it was only 6 months I would consider knocking it off my C.V and using the prior employer as the last one.I know people thin k this is really bad, but you've got to think about yourself.

SarEl

oki1875 wrote: »

Surely, i could not put as a reason for leaving "Unsuccessful probationary period". I would not have been invited for a job interview and my application would have never been considered.... I just left it blank. What do you think I could say in my case??

I agree - you can put this and you should. But not on it's own. Add an explanation. If there isn't space on that part of the form, add it in the supporting statement or somewhere else. Provide an explanation that doesn't blame the employer - whatever the in's and out's of the situation, the prospective employer won't want to hear how it wasn't your fault, it was theirs. Focus on a plausible (and preferably truthful) explanation about what went wrong with your probationary period, what you have learned from this and what you would do better in the future.

So, for example "I know that I struggled to do X and Y well, but although I worked hard to achieve the required standard, I never seemed to be able to understand what was required. I realise that, in hindsight, I was worried about asking for help or advice because I felt that I would be seen as a failure for not knowing what to do. I realise now that this was a mistake, and in future I would use my probationary period more wisely to seek advice from more experienced staff and managers about the right way to do things"

If the jobs are not exactly the same, you might look at whether the differences can support the application, thus; "I my previous posts I was expected to accounts which I had not done before, I realise that this is work that I struggle with and does not suit my skills. In this position I won't be required to do accounts, so the position would suit me better because my strengths lie in ..... (then say something they want to hear about how good you will be at the job they are advertising)"

Failing your probationary period isn't a heinous crime - although failing to say so might make an employer pause for thought about whether you are hiding this because you did commit a heinous crime! But unless you sat around making coffee and gossiping spitefully about your colleagues and managers, when you could be bothered to go to work because you were off sick every Friday, and most Mondays, then it isn't likely to be any major hurdle. It happens. And to be fair, it is what probationary periods are for. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. And employers know that. But they rarely like surprises - so dont try to pull the wool over their eyes.

LittleVoice

dandelionclock30 wrote: »

No it was an unsucessfull probationary period.

No - it was a dismissal. Dismissals can be for reasons such as redundancy or the end of a fixed term contract, not just misconduct.