working christmas

Uncertain

zagfles wrote: »

But if (IME more commonly) it says eg "you get 20 days leave plus bank holidays", then as well as the OP getting an alternative rest day (ie "weekend") as you say above, he also needs to get an alternative leave day for the bank holiday.

It is always tempting to think that our own experience represents the norm. Mine would be "28 days to include bank holidays".

I did see one silly situation where a person who only worked on Mondays was give a contact worded more or less your way. It said "20 days (pro rata if part time) plus bank holidays if they fall on days normally worked"! Obviously it was great for that individual as it meant he got far more holiday (pro rata) than anybody else. I don't know if they gave the same contract to somebody that only worked on, say, Wednesdays but if so it would be illegal!

Sambucus_Nigra

ska_lover wrote: »

Oh I see. Do you tend to patronise people when you do not understand them - in real life? Or is that just something you save for your internet persona?

I will give you a lesson in people skills. It is acceptable to use the words 'I do not understand'.

Calm down dear. Perhaps instead of 'having a go' at other people you could offer up some advice of your own. Sometimes it takes alternative methods to squeeze information out of people.

Sambucus_Nigra

zagfles wrote: »

Whether the bank holiday is a red herring or not depends on the OPs T&Cs.

For instance if they say "you get 28 days leave" then it is.

But if (IME more commonly) it says eg "you get 20 days leave plus bank holidays", then as well as the OP getting an alternative rest day (ie "weekend") as you say above, he also needs to get an alternative leave day for the bank holiday.

It would, if this was a situation where the days worked were in their usual 5 day a week routine.

This is not an annual leave situation. It's a 'weekend' situation. Hence, the OP needs to ask whether they are getting:
a - a day off in lieu of this extra working day
b - paid overtime

As pointed out by SG - the day worked is in the next year, so the OP can just take an alternative day off within January. Problem solved.

SarEl

zagfles wrote: »

But if (IME more commonly) it says eg "you get 20 days leave plus bank holidays", then as well as the OP getting an alternative rest day (ie "weekend") as you say above, he also needs to get an alternative leave day for the bank holiday.

As Uncertain has already said, assuming that the contract you have applies to everyone else is not really evidence of anything about the OP's position. If we are to be making assumptions, and to some extent we are because the OP isn't being 100% clear, then the assumptions ought to be based on what the OP has told us, not on what happens in someone elses workplace.

We know that the OP works five days a week and that their rest days are Sunday and Monday. We can infer with relative safety that the employer does not include bank holidays in the 28 days, because if they did (a) it would be unusual to open these bank holidays and not others and (b) the OP would be complaining that she wasn't getting her fair allowance of holidays since a great number of bank holidays normally fall on her rest day! We can also infer other things from what the OP has told us - this is a busy period at work because the employer needs staff in on days that are normally not worked, they are opening both Boxing day and New Years day So the OP probably works in retail, bar work, the restaurant trade, or one of the caring or health fields - because these are the most likely to be open on bank holidays and particularly busy on these two days of the year. And in all of these industries the norm is that bank holidays are not treated as holidays.

Yes, this is guess work. But it is guess work based on what the OP has actually told us and not on what I do in my workplace rather than hers.

zagfles

Uncertain wrote: »

It is always tempting to think that our own experience represents the norm. Mine would be "28 days to include bank holidays".

I did see one silly situation where a person who only worked on Mondays was give a contact worded more or less your way. It said "20 days (pro rata if part time) plus bank holidays if they fall on days normally worked"! Obviously it was great for that individual as it meant he got far more holiday (pro rata) than anybody else. I don't know if they gave the same contract to somebody that only worked on, say, Wednesdays but if so it would be illegal!

Yes - and in the OPs case the opposite is true. He doesn't work Mondays so will miss out on bank holidays.

All I'm saying is that if his T&Cs state "20 days plus bank holidays" or similar then he needs to make sure he gets a day off in lieu for any bank holidays that fall on his "weekend". Otherwise he won't get the statutory 28 days leave.

As well as getting an extra "weekend" day if he works it.

I don't really care whether the above is the norm or not. It's something that might apply to the OP so I think it's worth mentioning rather than assuming it doesn't. My wife worked in retail where there often opened bank holidays and had T&Cs like this so it's not that unusual.

sofaspud1234

zagfles wrote: »

Yes - and in the OPs case the opposite is true. He doesn't work Mondays so will miss out on bank holidays.

All I'm saying is that if his T&Cs state "20 days plus bank holidays" or similar then he needs to make sure he gets a day off in lieu for any bank holidays that fall on his "weekend". Otherwise he won't get the statutory 28 days leave.

As well as getting an extra "weekend" day if he works it.

I don't really care whether the above is the norm or not. It's something that might apply to the OP so I think it's worth mentioning rather than assuming it doesn't. My wife worked in retail where there often opened bank holidays and had T&Cs like this so it's not that unusual.

Sorry I have been too busy to reply. I don't understand! What I do understand is Monday is my normal day off and that is Boxing Day so I have another day off instead, but I feel I am still missing a statutory holiday Yes?no?

zagfles

sofaspud1234 wrote: »

Sorry I have been too busy to reply. I don't understand! What I do understand is Monday is my normal day off and that is Boxing Day so I have another day off instead, but I feel I am still missing a statutory holiday Yes?no?

That's what we were discussing - it depends on your company's leave policy. How many days leave do you get and are bank holidays included or on top?

clairec79

It may be in your annual leave for you to take at any point in the year - as an example for myself I have xmas day off this year, but am working both the 26th and 27th (my other day off that week is the 29th) I have an extra day in my annual leave which will get taken at some point in the leave year (I had the 20th off so you could say that was my 'Bank Holiday' another will be taken at some point), I've not lost out overall just if you look at the week where most folk are only working 3 days this year I'm working 5

KiKi

sofaspud1234 wrote: »

Sorry I have been too busy to reply. I don't understand! What I do understand is Monday is my normal day off and that is Boxing Day so I have another day off instead, but I feel I am still missing a statutory holiday Yes?no?

On that basis, I agree that you're missing a day's leave (and agree with Zagfles).

Let's take the same situation as a M-F arrangement. This year, Christmas falls on a Sunday. People with contracts of AL + 8 BHs get a day off in lieu (Tuesday) for a BH falling on a 'rest day'. (Over the two Christmas weeks that equals 5 working days then 3 working days = 8 altogether.)

If we were to work Sunday, Christmas Day, then we'd be a day down - so would still be owed the Tuesday, plus another day's leave in lieu of the Sunday. (So over those two Christmas weeks a M-F person would work 6 days then 2 days = 8 altogether.)

I agree that strictly speaking it's not an issue of BHs, but it does seem the OP is a day down. He is missing out on the BH as it falls on a rest day, and so has been give a day in lieu of it. That's great. BUT now he's been asked to work it, so he should get another day in lieu.

KiKi

SarEl

KiKi wrote: »

On that basis, I agree that you're missing a day's leave (and agree with Zagfles).

Let's take the same situation as a M-F arrangement. This year, Christmas falls on a Sunday. People with contracts of AL + 8 BHs get a day off in lieu (Tuesday) for a BH falling on a 'rest day'. (Over the two Christmas weeks that equals 5 working days then 3 working days = 8 altogether.)

If we were to work Sunday, Christmas Day, then we'd be a day down - so would still be owed the Tuesday, plus another day's leave in lieu of the Sunday. (So over those two Christmas weeks a M-F person would work 6 days then 2 days = 8 altogether.)

I agree that strictly speaking it's not an issue of BHs, but it does seem the OP is a day down. He is missing out on the BH as it falls on a rest day, and so has been give a day in lieu of it. That's great. BUT now he's been asked to work it, so he should get another day in lieu.

KiKi

No we still don't know that, because the OP still isn't telling us what their contract says about their annual leave. If the 28 days does not stipulate that bank holidays are included then the only way that you get a bank holiday off is to book it as holiday. The OP keeps insisting that they "feel" they are missing theor statutory holiday, but feeling don't count - contracts do.

The OP is not "missing out" on a bank holiday if their annual leave doesn't include bank holidays! In that is the case then they are only being asked to work a rest day and are only entitled to that rest day back. Because with 28 days leave excluding bank holidays then they can take their 28 days holidays when they want and don't get bank holidays.

On the other hand, if the OP has contractual leave of 28 days including bank holidays, then they must have missed out on August bank holiday (because that was also their rest day), Spring bank holiday (that was also their rest day), May bank holiday (also their rest day), Easter Monday (also theior rest day).... If the OP's contract entitles them to bank holidays and they always have rest days on these bank holidays then they should always get another days leave somewhere else.

The OP keeps insisting that Boxing day is a statutory holiday - it isn't. A statutory holiday is one of your 28 days statutory leave. A bank holiday isn't statutory leave unless your employer includes bank holidays in the 28 days.