The road less travelled

daviecol

Marisco wrote: »

I find that ads in newspapers tend to be for those with experience and qualifications. There are very few jobs for "low level" workers, in retail most of the jobs are for managers (with "proven experience") or specialist like pharmacy experience. It's very rare you'll get jobs for full time sales assistants in the paper. Even jobs like care workers are mostly part time, or nights which would be impossible for a single parent to take.

I feel desperately sorry, especially for young people, with the job situation as it is, I think the government should "come clean" and admit there will never be work for everybody, as there are just too many people chasing too few jobs. I'm just glad I'm at the end of my "working" life and not just starting out!!:)

I agree totally that there will not be enough jobs, our manufacturing industry has been destroyed by short term thinking governments not investing in the young generations future. It's been like that for years, when I left school there were no jobs.

I did a YOP scheme for £25 a week, dole was £16 but it didn't even enter my head that 'why should I work hard for 40 hours a week just to get an extra £9 a week'? I just did it, as did my friends. We all paid our mothers £15 a week board too.

I do fully agree that there aren't enough jobs but I also think that some (not all) just expect to spend life being given 'stuff' and not earning it.

I do however also agree with your comment about being at the end of your working life and not the beginning, I feel the same.

Funnily enough though when my daughter left school last year in the final assembly the head of year made a speech part of which has stuck in my mind. He said, 'I remember when I left school you could walk straight into a job and know you would working 730 till 4 in the same factory doing the same thing for many years, nowhere days it's not like that'.
Immediately all the parents started thinking about unemployment and how bad it was but he continued, 'nowhere days these kids can be at home in the morning and be on a plane to any where in Europe by the afternoon'.
'We didn't have anything like the fantastic opportunities these kids have, it's up to them to make the most of it'.
Now you could look at that as being over optimistic but it's also true.

Some kids will be sitting now playing on an xbox in their bedroom, right now, while others will be working behind a bar in Tenerife experiencing a bit of life.

Next year my daugher and her best friend are going to Ibiza on holiday with money they've saved out their wages. When I was her age 2 friends and I went on our pedal bikes for a weekend with a tent to a campsite 30 miles away from home.

Things have changed, there are opportunities but the tighter the competition gets, the more you have to raise your game. I'm not entirely sure everybody quite gets that?

kafkathecat

And if everyone raises their game? Then you still have the same number of 'losers'. If you build failure into a system then you should at least treat those at the bottom with respect imho. We need to think of a whole new way of doing things in my view.

clearingout

kafkathecat wrote: »

And if everyone raises their game? Then you still have the same number of 'losers'. If you build failure into a system then you should at least treat those at the bottom with respect imho. We need to think of a whole new way of doing things in my view.

that's exactly it, isn't it? respect for everyone who contributes, no matter how small, rather than questioning whether their contribution is sufficient or wondering if they shouldn't be doing more? Less being rude about huge groups of people ('single mothers', 'people on benefits') who have as many stories to tell as there are people in that situation. More getting on with your own life, teaching your children the value of money, education, self respect and respect for others no matter where they are with their lives rather than judging people we don't know by the moral rules we have in place for ourselves? More recognition that people live their lives in different ways and that no way is perfect? And perhaps most importantly, recognition that if we are to live in a democratic, welfare state, there will always be those who take advantage but their children are as much the future as our children and they deserve as many opportunities as we can possibly give them?

There are plenty of places in the world who don't look after their own, where war, famine, rioting, children picking through rubbish to earn a living are the norm. I would personally rather support the idol few to live with the system we have now. But I've benefitted from it at a time of incredible distress and upheaval, so I understand what it is to need welfare support. Walking a mile in other people's shoes occassionally, understanding the bigger picture, posting on internet forums...well, may be it will make us all better people and see things from another perspective?

FBaby

kafkathecat wrote: »

And if everyone raises their game? Then you still have the same number of 'losers'. If you build failure into a system then you should at least treat those at the bottom with respect imho. We need to think of a whole new way of doing things in my view.

But give enough that working is not worth it, and you get too few prepared to raise their game.

Did anyone see that programme on BBC2 about money a few days ago? There was this family originally from the Phillipines, the wife had come to the UK to be a physio therapist I think it was (because there are not enough to recruit in the UK, so the NHS has to outsource abroad). She came to work and her husband who had trained to be a architect followed her. She got pregnant and a few months later, fell pregnant again with identical triplets! They were saying how her husband had not been able to get a job with his qualifications and so had no choice but to work long hours at a NMW job. They were saying how he had no choice and the poor guy was fighting the tears. Then they said that she would soon be returning to her therapist job and that they were lucky because she could work early shift whilst he would work late shifts and so wouldn't need childcare. It is easy to imagine how hard that would be for both of them, but all they could say was that having those children were a blessing. Take away the debate over then taking jobs from the british, all i could think of is how many British families would really do this with four children under the age of 3 knowing how much benefits they would be able to claim.

Yes, they are no doubt families who genuinely struggle and who do deserve all the help they can get, but I strongly believe that as a nation, we have become quite lazy, good at blame to justify one's situation, and reliant on others. Many seem to spend much more energy on coming up with excuses as to why they can't work and support themselves than actually genuinely trying to change their situation.

I started my career in the care sector because i always wanted to help people in need, but over the years, I saw many just abusing the system, getting very good at it, and still expecting all the sympathy in the world, whilst those who genuinely struggled got little attention.

balletshoes

daviecol wrote: »

Incidentally do you know many kids under like 12? How many of their parents are still together, out of curiosity?

if it helps, I live in Nottingham, working-class area, my DD is 10 and goes to a large city primary school. In her class, of the children's parents that I do actually know, there are 16 lots of parents who are still together and have been at least since my DD was 4, and 8 mums who are not living with partners.

balletshoes

daviecol wrote: »

I really have to agree, I'm not having a go at couples that have children together then split up. People are complicated, life is complicated, love is complicated. People do go their separate ways.

But being young with no job and getting pregnant is totally unacceptable in my opinion. My daughter is 18 and she already has 2 people who she went to school with that have babies. No boyfriends, just babies.

A 19 year old that I know is pregnant and when I asked her if she was moving in with the father her reply was 'oh I'm not sure who he is, it could be one of four lads!

The reality is the moral of the nation has eroded and I'm afraid what the future holds.

it has for some people in our nation - not all, not even the majority.

Girls getting pregnant as teenagers? That was happening when I was at school 30 years ago. I have relatives on both sides of my family, who are my grandparents generation, who had babies as young unmarried girls.

daviecol

clearingout wrote: »

Walking a mile in other people's shoes occassionally, understanding the bigger picture, posting on internet forums...well, may be it will make us all better people and see things from another perspective?

I have been made redundant 5 times in my life, twice in the past 3 years. Each time I have had to learn new skills. Losing your job when you've got 2 kids and a mortgage is very scary.

In the past I have had to extend my mortgage, take out loans, and borrow on credit cards to get by at times (I would imagine practically everybody who visits this site has, that's what it's here for).

I currently earn less now than I did 15 years ago, but that's the way it is now. We're all going to have to do more for less for longer. Which is why I agreed with the poster who said 'I'm glad I'm coming to the end of my working life', so am I.

daviecol

balletshoes wrote: »

it has for some people in our nation - not all, not even the majority.

Girls getting pregnant as teenagers? That was happening when I was at school 30 years ago. I have relatives on both sides of my family, who are my grandparents generation, who had babies as young unmarried girls.

No doubt there were, however the fact is although contraception and sex education are far more widely available now than they were then, teenage pregnancy has risen since then. Why?

clearingout

daviecol wrote: »

No doubt there were, however the fact is although contraception and sex education are far more widely available now than they were then, teenage pregnancy has risen since then. Why?

because when you sit in a classroom, and the teachers tell you that you're never going to amount to anything, and no one mentions university to you but does mention MacDonalds, and your parents are in low paid jobs or have been in and out of work, and people generally are rude to you about your parents not having done anything with their lives, and you listen to what is said around you about low paid work and you realise just how little any contribution you might make to society will be valued...when you look in an estate agent's window and it costs £1000 a month to rent a small house and you realise on a MacDondald's wage, you'll never afford that...when you take a part-time job and suddenly realise that the trainers on your feet cost around 3 days of work to buy....you either take the easy option and become a mum or you stick two fingers up and work your backside off to get somewhere. Unfortunately, at 16, where your peers are more important to you than anything else, pregnancy is very much a viable option and gains you some respectability. As a mum you are someone, rather than no one.

There is a need to change how we value people and their contribution to society. We are all happy to nip into MacDonalds for a quick meal, but we are all equally happy to be scathing about the people serving us....

kafkathecat

daviecol wrote: »

I currently earn less now than I did 15 years ago, but that's the way it is now. We're all going to have to do more for less for longer.

But meanwhile directors pay went up almost 50% this year and bankers bonuses were as high as ever even though a study has shown bankers destroy £7 of wealth for every one they create:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235576/How-bankers-destroy-7-1-create-Hospital-cleaners-valuable-society-say-researchers.html

We should think about how we got here instead of trying to grab all we can and blaming thoses who miss out. Other countries manage things differently, Scandinavia and Japan for example.