New power of attorney guide

ColinB

Apologies in advance if this is a daft question, but I'm new to this ! I've done a quick forum search but can't find this.

My father-in-law signed an EPA several years ago and we're in the process of starting to use it. We have a certified copy and his bank has accepted it, so that's all good. But I'm coming across the concept of "registering" it, and I don't understand why this should be done. I can find plenty of guidance on how to register it (eg https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney) but I can't see any clear reason why that should be done. If the bank is happy to accept an unregistered EPA, what additional advantages are there to registering it ? Why should we bother ?

Thanks in advance.

Keep_pedalling

Does you FIL still have mental capacity? If not or he is just starting to lose it, you must register it if you want to continue using it and staying legal. You will find organisations who will not accept an unregistered EPA in the future such as hospitals, care homes and social services.

ColinB

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

Does you FIL still have mental capacity? If not or he is just starting to lose it, you must register it if you want to continue using it and staying legal. You will find organisations who will not accept an unregistered EPA in the future such as hospitals, care homes and social services.

Thanks for that. The main issue is not mental capacity (although that may be the case in future), but he can no longer pay his bills: his handwriting has degenerated such that the bank is bouncing his cheques because they can't read them and don't recognise his signature (and he distrusts both phone banking and internet banking so won't use those).

However, you're suggesting that using the EPA may not be legal if it's unregistered ? I'm surprised the bank seemed happy with it in that case. Can you or link to something explaining that a bit better please so I can understand what we're getting into ?

Primrose

Some institutions may accept an unregistered LPA or its predecessor the EPA as there are other reasons why some people may not be able to manage their affairs such as physical incapacity rather than mental capacity, ie they are badly disabled and cannot physically get to a bank, etc

However the trouble is that when mental incapacity starts to happen it's a different ball game and many institutions will want to play it safe in case this is a borderline or fraud issues could arise so will insist on it being registered and official.

We both have the new LPA version (as well as former EPA). and still have mental capacity but registered ours as soon as they were prepared. It takes about 8 weeks for this process and certified copies are now in the drawers of our attorneys in the hope they will never be needed.

I recommend you get the the P of A registered now. It could save hassle further down the line if the situation changes and as already been suggested, some institutions will not accept the document unless it has been registered so if you need to have any dealings with social services or hospitals for example they will require a registered version.

Incidentally we have also done Health & welfare LPAs and have notified our GP surgery of our wishes in that regard so that they know our attorneys may have access to our medical records and be involved in decisions regarding our medical treatment as otherwise this information would be confidentially protected and not available to them. Our practice has logged this up on our medical computer records

Keep_pedalling

ColinB wrote: »

Thanks for that. The main issue is not mental capacity (although that may be the case in future), but he can no longer pay his bills: his handwriting has degenerated such that the bank is bouncing his cheques because they can't read them and don't recognise his signature (and he distrusts both phone banking and internet banking so won't use those).

However, you're suggesting that using the EPA may not be legal if it's unregistered ? I'm surprised the bank seemed happy with it in that case. Can you or link to something explaining that a bit better please so I can understand what we're getting into ?

There is no need to register an EPA while the donor still has full mental capacity, but it must be registered if it is lost.

The newer LPAs must be registered to use, which is why ours were registered 5 ago just in case either of us saw unexpectedly incapacitated through accident or illness. Registering in advance has the advantage that should any errors made cause a rejection by the OPG you still have time to correct them.

As his EPA was drawn up a considerable time ago, I would recommend that he should review it, and probably replace it with both financial and health LPAs.

If not already done you should also get your LPAs sorted.

Grandad99

My wife and I set up EPAs in 2007, shortly before introduction of the LPAs, having been advised that they were a better option. Can't remember details of why.

I have the original agreements and reading this forum realise that we should register them now, before anything happens to us.

Am I correct in understanding that the registration fee is £82 and that each certified copy is £25?

p00hsticks

Grandad99 wrote: »

My wife and I set up EPAs in 2007, shortly before introduction of the LPAs, having been advised that they were a better option. Can't remember details of why.

As far as I recall you could draw an EPA up yourself and start to use it (if wished) and there was (is) no need to register it unless or untill the person became incapacitated (we got my late mother-in-law to set one up so her son could handle her financial affairs for her) - a simpler and cheaper process than the new LPAs which must be registered before use (although the LPAs offer more pretection and go into much greater detail about the donors wishes etc).

Grandad99 wrote: »

I have the original agreements and reading this forum realise that we should register them now, before anything happens to us.

As above, one of the advantages of the EPA over the newer LPA is that it doesn't have to be registered unless or until the person in question (the donor) becomes incapcitated

Grandad99 wrote: »

Am I correct in understanding that the registration fee is £82 and that each certified copy is £25?

Yes, although if the donor has a low income or is in reeipt of certain benefits they can get the fee reduced or exempted
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/power-of-attorney-fees

More details on the old style EPAs here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/287864/EPA101_Guidance_apply_register_EPA.pdf

Grandad99

Thank p00hsticks

one of the advantages of the EPA over the newer LPA is that it doesn't have to be registered unless or until the person in question (the donor) becomes incapcitated

The information booklet you suggested confirms this

When should an Enduring Power of Attorney be registered
and by whom?

The Attorney is the person responsible for registering the EPA.
This is because the EPA is only registered when the Attorney
believes that the Donor is becoming or has become mentally
incapable of handling his or her own affairs.

A number posts talk of problems if there are errors in the document. Are EPAs not subject to this risk?

p00hsticks

Grandad99 wrote: »

A number posts talk of problems if there are errors in the document. Are EPAs not subject to this risk?

I can't fully remember (it's a long time since we did it and MIL has now been dead for several years) so I could be wrong but in my recollection the old EPA was pretty straightforward and with little room for error - it involved little more than getting the donors signature on the pre-printed form ? I can't even recall needing to get her signature witnessed.

If that's the case then the only problem I could foreesee is not an issue with the form itself but if someone decided to challenge the registration after the donor was incapacitated and so no longer able to confirm that it was genuinely their signature and that they knew what they were sgiging.

From what I've heard the new-style LPAs are a completely different kettle of fish - lot's of scope for errors in completing the forms but the fact that you have to register them straight way means that thedonor is in a position to correct them if necessary. It just proves costly as I believe you don't get your fee refunded if you apply for registration and it's rejected due to errors.

Grandad99

Many thanks - I will stay with the EPA