New power of attorney guide

John_Pierpoint

Legally speaking you might want to protect your position by getting LPA before spending a chunk of the capital of an elderly relative.

However if you are (say) their only child I doubt there would be a problem - it is all a matter of family dynamics. Keep immaculate accounts for every financial transaction you make.

You might find some other useful information on the "Over 50's" part of this forum, in particular continuing health care, which is topical at the moment.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/800521

System

About 10 years ago my elderly mother made her will and made me her only executor and arranged for me to act as her Enduring POA should the situation arise.

Now i am not a beneficiary in her will (i got the house 10 years ago) and the bulk of her estate after fees will go to my brother (about £100k).

Now since my brother and i arent on the best of terms and obviously if i'm the only one who has any legal say in her care and after she dies sorting out her estate this is going to be really difficult for me and my brother.

I'd rather my brother deal with it as its his money anyway but the way its set up then i have to deal with it.

Can i get out of these duties just by saying no? Really i need my brother to take over as executor and he needs the Enduring POA.

The reason it was given to me in the first place because Mother reconned my brothers girlfriend would rip him off and he wouldnt understand what looking after her affairs would entale (and she's probably right).

John_Pierpoint

You can refuse to act BUT then who is going to sort out the mess you are creating ?
Presumably mum's estate is reasonably simple, taxes up to date etc. ?
Does you brother understand the ins and outs of your mother's affairs, if not who is he going to ask?

So you could say to your brother that he must do all the work and you will just act as his auditor and sign the bits of paper where appropriate.

It can largely be done by post - there need be almost no occasions where you need to meet pace to face. Has it occurred to you that your relationship with your brother has caused your mother pain and she wisely realises you are the sensible one but hopes this might be an opportunity for both of you to behave like adults (and save a few pounds in fees)?

Are there the patter of tiny feet in this family anywhere ?
You can divorce your spouse but you are stuck with your relatives.

nealh

Both of these are 'nice little earners' for Lawyers and Doctors. Expect £70 fees from a Doctor. (Some expect £100). HOWEVER, Having been through both I strongly recommend that anyone over the age of 75 takes out an LPA. This is as important as a Will. My mum was 89 when she had a stroke. If we had discussed an LPA all our lives would have been much simpler and less fraught with the family. You don't need a Lawyer and you don't need a Doctor in the vast bulk of cases but they will both 'sell' the services of each other as if doing without them will cause problems. In fact the progress, whilst painfully slow, is relatively easy and forces family issues to be discussed. THIS ISSUE SHOULD BE GETTING MUCH MORE PUBLICITY.

silverserfer

I am considering LPOA but all the information seems to relate to obtaining a LPOA - nothing about what happens when the time comes for the attorney to take over or open new bank a/cs etc for the donor where the donor still has "capacity" and what exactly the attorney has to do.

It's difficult to ask someone to be your attorney without giving them some idea of what is involved.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

ropewalk

Silver serfer,
Much depends on your affairs, and how complex, or simple, they are.
I am attorney for both my brother and sister, and expect soon to be for my mother. In our circumstances it means that I look after their finances, doing all the things they would do themselves if they had the ability to do so. I took over their existing bank accounts, pay their bills, deal with benefits, insurance, savings, or anything else. Dealing with some companies is hell, and I have even had run-ins with banks who seem unaware of what a POA is. But as I said in a previous post, it is the only available authority to enable me to do these things, so it would be even worse without one.

I would suggest that anyone you ask should be reasonably reliable, and of course, you have to trust them completely. I also suggest that you try to get at least two names on the POA, just in case one of your attorneys becomes ill or unable to act for some reason. If you can afford it I would definitely recommend using a solicitor, as they can hold the POA until it is needed and will then arrange the registration etc. It also ensures that everything is done correctly.

Everyone's situation is different, and I have had a lot more work with my sister's finances as they were a lot more complicated when I took them over. But basically I don't do anything that I wouldn't do with my own finances, and now most of it is dealt with by direct debit and/or internet banking.

Hope this helps, any questions, feel free to ask.

Ropewalk

Src1_3

Veryannoyed wrote: »

I think it's vital that any guide specifically addresses the limitations on what the attorney can do with the donor's money and that this is spelled out clearly so that it cannot be either mistakenly or deliberately misinterpreted.

For instance, an attorney started forwarding cheques for £3,000 a time to family members saying that this was permitted under inland revenue rules before the end of a tax year. Bogus engagements were also considered as an excuse to give a large cash present. When I pointed out that only small 'gifts' ie £25 such as would be given on a birthday or for Christmas were allowed, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. In the end I found the whole thing so disgusting that I went to see a solicitor who confirmed this rule about only small gifts was on the attorney forms. They had to retrieve all the money they had paid out and put it back into the donor's bank account.

I feel that people will exploit the rules if they think they can get away with it and they need to know about this small gifts rule.

The POA is a powerful document and by its very nature a deed. The instructions contained within are the ones the Attorney must follow. Otherwise the Attorney is committing a fraud. In your case clearly the Attorney appeared to be committing a fraud and there are serious criminal sanctions against this.

In our case the the forms clearly state the Attorney can only claim out of pocket expenses. So the donor can indirectly pay their own bills.

dailybread

I submitted my completed application in mid-April for the appointment of my daughter to act as my attorney should the need arise at any time and the documents were returned to me towards the end of June stamped by the OPG and ready for use should they be required.

I have an acquaintance who recently suffered a stroke and her family are suddenly in an extremely stressful situation because the poor lady cannot communicate or make decisions and never knew of the wisdom of appointing a trusted family member or friend to act for her should such a thing ever happen to her. So the family have had to set in motion the far more complicated process of application of Appointment to Deputyship with its ongoing annual expenses and supervision by the OPG. I know that this is not something the lady who suffered the stroke would ever have wanted her family to endure.

I agree with those who have said that far more publicity should be given to the wisdom of setting up an LPA!

I'd already told this lady's sister of my intention to appoint my daughter to this role and when she heard that my LPA has been successfully registered she asked if I'd help her with an application of her own. What has happened in her sister's case has horrified her and she wishes to avoid this in her own case.

I pointed out to her that I've made a very simple application with no restraints or restrictions on my daughter's power and that if she intends to give her daughter similar unrestricted power then I'm confident that I can assist. If otherwise - then I'd prefer not to be involved because of the risk of rejection of the application, as I'm not confident in my certainty that I could word any restriction she might wish for, so as to satisfy her and also have it accepted for registration by the OPG.

She assured me that she wishes to keep it simple just as I did in my application so we're going ahead and have ordered the forms and guidance booklets.

dodger1

How does a bank account work under lasting power of attorney. Let's say my brother and I are the attorneys for our mother. What happens when a cheque needs to be written, do we go to the bank with some kind of letter from the Office Of The Public Guardian and then what happens, do they just issue a new cheque book with our names on the cheques instead of out mother's. All very confusing so thanks for any guidance.

ropewalk

"How does a bank account work under lasting power of attorney?"

You have to go into the bank to register POA on the account, once this is done then you just sign cheques as usual. Some banks issue new cheque books with "J Bloggs POA for P. Bloggs" on the bottom. Others seem to just let you carry on using the cheque book with P. Bloggs name on it, in which case I just write in POA under my signature.

The hard bit is getting the bank to apply the POA in the first place. Make sure that the people in the branch you visit understand what you are saying - many do not!

Banks are only the tip of the iceberg though... think about all the other financial transactions, HMRC, benefits, insurance, pensions, utility companies etc etc

I have found that registering with them is the hard bit, and some are easier than others. But many do not return the POA document even when asked so make sure you have several certified copies.

If you have any specific questions then ask, as I am POA for two siblings and have met all sorts of difficulties and quirks, no two companies seem to have the same rules! However, things eventually sort themselves out.