New power of attorney guide

Malthusian

Keep_pedalling wrote: »

If that is the case how did the sister sort out access to the accounts on her own?

All OP said was that the sister went into the bank with the POA paperwork. They don't both need to be present just to hand in the POA - only if they are giving the bank instructions. Or if there were any instructions, they may have both signed and then the sister delivered them.

If the bank has told her that they both need to sign as the attorneys have to act jointly that would appear to be definitive. I can't see that the sister has done anything that would require her to be able to act jointly and severally.

To clear it up once and for all the OP could take a look at the Power of Attorney document and tell us whether her mum ticked "Jointly and severally" or "Jointly" under "How should your attorneys make decisions?".

billn

Sope wrote: »

My assumption was that when an attorney presents the LPA to a financial institution they would require proof of ID including current address from them before they would allow them to make any transactions on the donor's behalf?
I'd be interested to hear the experience of someone who's been through the process although I suppose it may again depend on the particular institution involved?

I have just registered an LPA by post and had to send a certified copy of my photo driving licence along with the copy of the LPA.

With regards to the wet signature and declaration, I read I think on another forum it is acceptable to scan the original then paste it to a word or similar document with the declaration as a footer then sign and date that in blue ink to show that the whole page has not been copied. Make sure that the wording is exact to the website advice noting that the last page is different.

Sope

Well I've just received confirmation that the LPA documents have been received by the OPG and that they have formally notified everyone they have to inform.
This was about 4 weeks after posting. The letter says the law requires them to wait 4 weeks before they can register the LPA, so this would make 8 weeks in total.

elsien

I plan to read through this whole thread as soon as I can.
But while parent accepts the needs for a power of attorney, getting her to do it is proving difficult. Although we've downloaded all the forms, she's struggling to think about what is important to include.

So for both health and welfare, and finances ( single person, own home, some investments, by no means a millionaire) what could she think to include.
What's in yours that may not be immediately obvious or relevant to others, just to trigger a few lines of thought?

Primrose

Some thoughts on the Finance document:


Should attorneys be responsible for claiming all state benefits (pension, attendance allowance, etc) to which donor should be entitled.?
Should attorneys use an accountant to complete their annual tax return if their affairs are complicated or that is what has always happened in the past?
Must attorneys ensure that any savings accounts are not amalgamated in a way that puts them over the Government compensation limit.
Should investments be restricted to only ethical investments?
Should attorneys be allowed to make financial gifts, and if so, should they be restricted to named individuals and should there be an upper financial limit?
Must attorneys get the opinion of GP that donor is incapable of living independently before their house is sold?
If investments have to be liquidated or the house has to be sold, and attorneys are acting jointly and severally, should attorneys be encouraged to consult with each other before any decision is made? (You cannot enforce this if you opt for attorneys acting jointly & severally but you CAN make your wishes known.


For the Health & Welfare document:


Should attorneys have the right to decide when resuscitation is inappropriate?
Should attorneys be given the right of access to donor's medical records?
Must attorneys get independent medical advice before donor is forced to move into a care home?
Should attorneys be consulted on any important life changing medical procedures ie surgery, chemotherapy, etc if donor does not have mental capacity?.
What sort of care home would the donor prefer if this were necessary, (close to where they have lived, or closer to other family members if their attorneys/relatives live a long distance away)
Would donor prefer to die in hospital, hospice or at home if choice is an option?


No doubt others on here will add their own thoughts. As you will see, there 's a lot to think about. It's good to document your wishes and preferences as people may make a P of A years in advance of losing mental capacity, register them and file them away until needed and attorneys could forget any original wishes or conversations. Writing them down refreshes the memory and removes any avoidance of doubt.


Also, if people don't find it easy talking about these difficult issues in ordinary conversation, encouraging them to think about instructions in a formal way sometimes gets the issue moving. In such a case, you could always ask "How would you feel about including "such and such? Would that be something you would want?"


Once the LPAs have been registered the documents will be returned to you unstapled (ie loose). I checked with the Office of Public Guardian and it is perfectly permissible to staple them for security. You will not invalidate them by doing so. In their registration confirmation letter to you they also advise the specific wording you must use to write at the bottom of every page to certify photocopies of your documents. The O of PG advised that they realise the space available for this is limited and the writing, signature & date may therefore overspill to any other blank spaces near the bottom of each page.

StephAshcroft

Hello!

Can you help me please - I am the informal carer of my 90+ year old neighbour who has dementia. I don't overly want to be her LPA - but I don't want her newly interested family getting their hands on her money until she dies.

Her social worker has said that I should get a Solicitor to do a LPA - both finance and welfare, with the solicitor acting as her Attorney. I have rung 8+ solicitors, and cannot find any in the Manchester area who offer this service.

Is it a service offered? Someone mentioned that it was, but it was extremely expensive - any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Stephanie

Primrose

Stephanie Your Local Citizens Advice Bureau or local Age Concern might be able to help you locate a solicitor specialising in family affairs who will do this

If your neighbour already has dementia to some degree, her local GPmay well be required to certify that she has sufficient mental capacity to know what she is doing.

Unless you are willing to take on the commitment and are also prepared to face a possible battle with family members, really a solicitor would be the best person to take it on but I suspect few will be prepared to do it. If you do take it on, get your neighbour,s GP involved with the process as a certificate provider to reduce any legal arguments about her mental capacity.

If you do take the job on you can do the Finance and Health and Welfare LPAs online for £82 each which is considerably cheaper than a solicitor would charge. Have you discussed this with your neighbour? Does she understand what a LPA is and is she sufficiently campus mentis to agree to your taking on the role?

Malthusian

You could try the STEP directory. It has a section for solicitors specialising in "elderly and vulnerable clients". I would be surprised if you couldn't find one there willing to act as a professional attorney.

That said, her family are probably going to get their hands on her money anyway, so the risk to her is not whether they get her money but whether they use the power of attorney to empty the bank account, leaving her penniless and unable to afford care or essentials. Which is quite remote. (Not least because it is a monumentally stupid thing to do, and a guaranteed jail sentence.)

If one of them wants to be her attorney rather than have her pay the very high cost of having a solicitor act as a professional attorney - and the neighbour is able to retain capacity for long enough to allow them to do it - I would think very carefully before trying to interfere.

elsien

Who does your neighbour wish to be her LPA? It is her decision, after all.

mumpig

Hi
I wonder if anyone has any advice that would be helpful to me in the situation I am in with Enduring Power of Attorney, the OPG and banking.
I will try to keep it as simple as possible!
I have and EPA, taken out before the LPA changes, so legally valid, for my brother. It was taken out whilst he had capacity, mental health issues, and since has become mentally incapacitated. I have documents from a mental capacity assessment to show it was agreed he does not now have capacity and currently he is detained under the mental health act, and probably will be now for life.
He had a simple, basic account with Santander some years ago and due to decreasing capacity did not use it for several years. I tried several times to try to get this changed or accessible to him, but each time I called the only thing I could get out of the call center was he has to go in to branch-not easy when you are not well enough to access the community! So knowing this was now probably a dormant account I decided to go into branch and try and get this sorted out.
I made an appointment and took in the EPA, proof of my identity and address as this is now different to the one on the EPA as it was made many years ago. All documents checked and copied by the bank staff-but then she tells me the EPA is not registered with the Office of the Public Guardian-it should be stamped and it is not.
Now back in 2015 I filled in all the forms, sent everything to the OPG, paid the fee as I had read about registering and eventually got paperwork back. This I filed away as you do, as it’s not an everyday document and taking it to Santander is the first time I have needed it since.
Looking at the covering letter properly it says “they have found a copy of the EPA and have enclosed a copy”. I already had a copy-this was not why I paid the fee, to get a copy of a document I had already, but to register it for future use.
So, firstly do I have a hope in hell’s chance that the OPG will register the document without me having to go through the whole thing again, pay the fee again and several weeks/months wait, my application & payment surely will be on record?
Secondly Santander say I can either get the EPA registered and bring back the stamped copy or get my brother to sign an Attorney/deputy form. The second option would be quicker and cheaper, but he may well refuse to sign it due to his mental health and would it be even valid as he does not have capacity?
Thank you for any advice on if all this is correct from Santander and how best to proceed.