Vital Energi plans big raise in heating bill for our housing development

Eamon252

Looks like your management company has serious questions to answer. the way they seem to be handling this is going to cost you all alot of money, in fees, but also in the knock on effect on house prices. typical management company causing everyone alot of hassle due to MISMANGEMENT.

Montywithnail

I think it will be important that at this meeting we do not get rushed into voting on something which everyone is not fully aware of, ie. dealing with Vital. It looks increasingly from what I read like they are willing to meet and account for themselves yet we have apparently declined the invitation. I think we would need to have them there so all sides of the story are being heard, as I for one do not trust that the Carvills or CSM have any concern over what we are charged as long as they are not accountable for any debt/charges. So I am completely in agreement that we need to hang on to the site unless we have no other choice. Gifting it to Vital is not going to affect what we are paying in terms of
maintenance charges or per unit costs.

Posom

Everyone please read your agreement lease not the balls the management company have put out. The 995 year lease cannot be done other wise we are breaking our own lease agreement which has to do with the deeds and our mortgages. The lease agreements are stamped through the courts and cannot be changed and def not by a management company. Please read schedule 10.1 on page 34 and clause 3b schedule 7 on page 28. As vital where only meant to be the contractors for energy for 3 years their contract is now up. Sonia and CSM have broken their duty of care to us by letting it go this far. They should have been in touch with mutual energy in NI who work in partnership with vital and ask them to take over the contract or employed the engineers who have been looking after it the same way try employ our gardener!!! Lastly a few points
1) unpaid money to vital is between them and the developer it quite clearly states in
Our vital agreement that out maintenance fuel supply etc is paid by us to them at the pay point through out Prepay cards. The £12 that we pay CSM is for capital funds (anything over normal daily maintenance) vital cannot ask us for anymore money- it's not how we pay them, it is CSM looking the extra money. We are already in £39,000 surplus for capital funds.
2) as a management company we need to appoint a solicitor which was suggested by CSM - great- but why are they asking us to speak to out own- which means paying for the privilege twice? Have they done something illegal. They cannot gave entered into an agreement without members voting that was different from the initial set out between vital and carville.
3) management companies duty of care to supply us with continuous heat why ave they left it until the agreement is up- is it because there is something in it for them?
Let's get rid of CSM they are unless and can never fully explain the monthly bills. Sonia is also one of the rudest people I have ever had to deal with - has she forgotten we employ her!!
Running a management company is a full time job. I like my others are self employed and I am sure a team of us could do a better job!!

green8

You could be right but lets not jump the gun yet. We've been paying Sonia Millar well enough so lets get down the road a bit without wasting energy on conflict with our agent. This may not be the time to make a substitution?

green8

The Contract between Vital and Woodbrook Management Company was for ten years and expires on 31/9/2018. It is subject to annual reviews of performance with a system of reports /reviews. Carvill, not Vital, paid for the building and all the plant in it. PWC may have a hand on it now, but the agreement I mention says that all this infrastructure and mains pipework, Domestic Credit Module and the heat meter - right up to an isolation valve belong to WMC. If you are a shareholder you have a stake in WMC. We just pay CSM to administer WMC on our behalf, as you put it we employ her.

The agreement is not "up" now. It might be null and void? I don't know.

Prices were to be reviewed annually but have not altered since May 2009. Vital are required to submit a "Projected Cost and Energy Usage Report" for consideration 3 months before a new tariff is agreed "otherwise agreed new tariffs will be set each September".

Vital can terminate with 12 months notice if it can demonstrate that they are making a loss. Their designed profit is 7.5%. Vital have taken a hit here. We're gonna have to pay more, no doubt. But this is a negiotation. No panic.

The "surplus" you mention is perhaps the monies put into a sinking fund by WMC to replace plant or meet costs for renewal and replacement? That was to be 35K/yr when phase one was complete. I guess it's pro rata now @ £3.85 + VAT taken from each of our £12 per month contribution towards the district heating.

Our freehold leases do, I understand, have causes tying us to the district heating. Wouldn't stop me going "off the grid" if absolutely necessary though, but I am wedded to the idea of our lessening our impact on the environment, and what about the appartment dwellers in Woodbrook?

green8

I have found there are a few like-minded residents who, while seeing we need to pay some level of increase, see clearly that we need fuller discovery e.g. to know about ownership of our big asset (Energy Centre). And to hold on to it if it is ours in law, as was intended. We can strategise a bit and help direct CSM, our agent, monitoring how effective they are.

My immediate neighbours are mostly thinking alike, at this point. On Saturday and Monday evenings I went door to door speaking to 5 other households. I guess others have done this too. We'll not panic. There are (at least) few well versed people in Woodbrook. They may not put themselves out there at the EGM initially for good reason, but they will continue to network and put their minds to this.

I have revised my original post a little.

On Tuesday I will be asking that we contribute to a whip-round for Christmas presents for Michael the caretaker of the Energy Centre and our last remaining builder, Jim. Both of them have kept us warm through the 2010 freeze and thaw and during recent difficulties at some personal cost to them selves. I know that things would have gone badly without them. Don't care if PWC pay them now, they need a display of goodwill from us.

green8

There are a few copies of said agreement floating about now. If you don't have it, PM me and I'll get it to you.

green8

Vital Energi will be represented by Steve Webster at this evenings meeting - contrary to what our agent Sonia of CSM said in her letter. He's getting a 12.00 flight. Webster has spoken to several residents?

Montywithnail

I am somewhat glad that Vital are to be represented. I get the feeling that CSM and Carvill would quite happily "lead us up the garden path".

I am also of the opinion that at some point we need to get CSM out. They are not efficient and as earlier stated, Sonia Millar is both rude and very unhelpful.

I downloaded the list of shareholders and it appears there is around 150 to 155 independent shareholders along with Clanmil who holds 27 shares and Chris Carvill who holds 28. I also recall that maintenance fees where divided by around 170-180 parts in the most recent bill from CSM. According to the shareholders list there is 202 equal shares so who is not paying? Unless of course I have missed a more up to date letter (would not suprise me as they are infrequent).

green8

Should we adjourn to another more private online space. Any advice from IT people? Something accessible? ..Faceass or whatever.

We might also need another means of communication such as newssheet to be truly inclusive?

I want to attend some of the interim meetings b4 end of January and have met one or two others already that I would like to be there too, to strategise properly. I've had conversataions I would not draw on while publicly online...

We should send email contact details with name address to CSM as they are our current communication - hub.. for what of a better word.