Invoiced without order? Is this allowed?

nry_2

Yep, recorded delivery (checked and signature was taken and I have printed the website page from Royal Mail) and they also acknowledge receipt of my letter in their post recent letter and enclosed a copy of it - no way they can deny my request being made

blue_monkey_2

nry - do you have legal cover on your home insurance? Now is the time to use it.

Also, you must be in the Union if working for the LEA - they have a free number to call for legal advice, don't they? An official letter from a solicitor will do far more than one from you and it'll show them that you are prepared to fight this properly - and also that they will be responsible for your defence costs if there are any.

Where is your signature on the 'order'? Anyone can write an order up, however, if authorising the work you would be expected to provide a signature, which you clearly have not. And if buying on Credit there has to be proper Credit Agreement drawn up. Which there has been none.

More so they are writing to your employer to embarrass you into paying. The court will have a field day with them, I am sure. I cannot believe for one minute this company has taken any sort of legal action.

nry_2

You don't have to be in a Union however I am. We should also have legal cover on our home insurance so far as I know.

I will send this letter today - if they do respond to work then it is one extra step for any harrassment claim, otherwise if they do submit the claim, which as I said I think they may well do, then I'll consider my next step. I have asked for a written reply by return, to my home address, to confirm the issue is closed or to provide documentary evidence of the order being placed. If they do - it finishes by stating that if either of these do not occur then I will be taking further action as stated in my letter(harrassment consideration, reporting to the OFT etc.). The online template letter was a very good guide for this.

It may be that TS will step in and speak to them on my behalf, they did this for a previous car warranty issue I had and things were settled rather promptly.

nry_2

TS are going to ring the MD this morning for 'their side' of the story. Might prove interesting!

Union provide up to 30mins initial legal advice FOC but the rest is chargeable, there is cover on the home insurance too. If required I think I'd take the 30mins free advice and see what got said.

nry_2

Ok, TS have spoken to the supplier and tell me that they are issuing a credit note to the value of the invoice stating something to the effect of 'misunderstandings during in initial communication'. As yet I do not know if they will issue this to my home address or work, however it appears to be finally settled!

Part of me wishes they had responded yet again to work so I had some grounds to follow this up further, but I suspect that even if they do send the credit note to my employers, any possibility to consider a harrassment charge would be negated.

Does anyone feel I am within my rights to follow this on further or am I best to leave it behind?

aldredd

As tempting as it might be to try & 'get them back', I would suggest just walking away from it and be done with them.

They won't be worth the hassle.

nry_2

My thoughts really, as my letter did specifically state that I would only consider further action if they did not respond in a suitable manner, though I've no idea if TS intervening had any impact on the suppliers possible response to my letter:

"I refer to your recent contact regarding the above account which you claim I owe. As advised by Trading Standards I am informing you that I still do not recognise the debt and therefore it is still DISPUTED.

My employer has also written a response to yourselves as requested in your most recent letter which I believe should be with you by your stated deadline of January 9th 2012.
I am at present taking legal advice and also guidance from Trading Standards on this matter including, but not limited to, potential harassment from your company relating to this matter. I have been advised to re-iterate the following points from my last letter to your company, dated 1st December 2011 along with additional points advised by Trading Standards/Consumer Direct:
1. This is a personal issue with me directly – Trading Standards have advised me today that suggesting my business card was proof that this was an order through my employer is unacceptable. Business cards are left with numerous suppliers to my work and it is never expected that this constitutes a credit account request nor does it provide proof of any order being placed. You have ignored an attempted verbal request to supply my home address (when your employee put the phone down on me) and also my written request to use my home address as I supplied in my previous letter.


2. I am not in a position or of a mind-set to instruct work to be undertaken without pricing being quoted in advance – this is simply good practice and is one I have followed at work and in my personal life before instructing work to commence.


3. If this was an official work order on a credit account then ***** would, as is their policy, have placed a written order on official paperwork after completing and signing a credit account application. This has never occurred and evidence of such an account being opened in this manner or order being placed has not been supplied as previously requested.


4. Initial verbal discussions took place between myself and two workshop staff, one of whom I believe was *******. At no point did I instruct your company to produce anything – your staff offered to make a sample up using spare aluminium and in spare time they had available in order that they could provide accurate costing on supply of 4 finished car inlet manifold runners. At no point did anyone request contact details from myself, the business card was left (with my work details crossed out as per your supplied copy) purely so one of your employees could ring me with an indicative price to make 4 items. If you do not manufacture samples free of charge then you should have made this clear at the time of initial discussion – I fail to understand why you think ***** would have need for a custom engine component.

5. I claimed at initial contact that this was a personal project so your recent letter stating that I have since changed this claim is untrue. You only started to write to my employer after I initially disputed the debt, all correspondence previous to the dispute was addressed directly to myself.

6. Under the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance (updated October 2011) it states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question – as such, your recent letter to my employer potentially contravenes this guidance.


7. I would also remind you that the OFT states under their Guidance that it is ‘unfair’ to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable and that it is deceptive and unfair in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt. As you have not supplied any suitable evidence of an order being placed, and have written to my employer relating to this issue, again it is possible you have contravened this Guidance.


8. Furthermore, if you ignore and/or disregard claims that debts have been settled or are ‘disputed’ and continue to make unjustified demands for payment then this can amount to physical or psychological harassment, as detailed in the OFT Guidance.


9. I am also familiar with Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act which states that it is a criminal offence to “falsely imply that non-payment of the debt will lead to criminal proceedings”. Your company is unable to issue a court summons, this can only be done by the Courts themselves upon submission of suitable evidence that they feel warrants a court case. Your recent letter implies that you have the ability to issue and put on hold a court summons which I believe contravenes Section 40 of this Act and potentially adds to consideration of your actions as harassment.
As I dispute this debt you refer to then I trust you will make no further contact requesting payment unless you can satisfy me personally at my home address that this debt exists and that I am liable. This would require you to provide documentary evidence of an order being placed with your company by me for the sample part which you have not previously supplied. A quote or an invoice is not evidence of an order being placed, simply evidence that these documents were produced.
If you subsequently cannot prove I owe this debt and if you continue to act in this irresponsible and unprofessional way then I will have no other alternative than to report you to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading. I will also lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service and your trade association, and if appropriate, the Credit Services Association.
If I receive any communication from a debt collection agency then it will be evident that you have sold this debt on with the knowledge that it is disputed. Should this occur then I will report you to the government bodies and trade association detailed above.
I now await written confirmation that this matter is now closed, you are not to contact me by telephone, instead by letter only addressed to my home address as supplied at the top of this and my previous letter to yourselves. If such confirmation is not received then I will have no other option than to act as I have described above.
I look forward to your reply by return."

blue_monkey_2

The great thing is that they have backed down. I do know what you mean about wanting to get your own back but I think what you have already done is enough. I wonder how many other people just paid up for fear of Legal Action. Wait until the credit notes comes, there may be an apology in there but do not hold your breath.

The good thing you have proved by going further was that they cannot do things like this so it might stop them doing it to someone else and Tradin Standards being involved has probably been enough to give them a shake up.

Have you asked TS what was said about them contacting you at your workplace?

If you want to do them for harrassment it will be a civil case which you have to bring yourself so, while they have done that, it is actually going to go nowhere. Trading Standards calling them will be enough of a shake up for any company as if someone else complains, they will be investigated further and this will have done more than you realise.

I know that you are angry but I think you need to walk away and be thankful that your boss was your friend, was understanding and knew what was going on.

I am not sure if there is anyone you can report that to - that they contacted your workplace - if there is then a complain to them, maybe, but walk away from this company and be thankful that TS took it up for you.

nry_2

I didn't ask that, TS just said a generic about the miscommunication and what was requested/who requested it. Basically the supplier trying to suggest it was not all their fault at a guess

Flyboy152

nry wrote: »

Ok, TS have spoken to the supplier and tell me that they are issuing a credit note to the value of the invoice stating something to the effect of 'misunderstandings during in initial communication'. As yet I do not know if they will issue this to my home address or work, however it appears to be finally settled!

Part of me wishes they had responded yet again to work so I had some grounds to follow this up further, but I suspect that even if they do send the credit note to my employers, any possibility to consider a harrassment charge would be negated.

Does anyone feel I am within my rights to follow this on further or am I best to leave it behind?

I would also suggest, that you let everyone who might be interested in doing busienss with them, know about the way they have treated you.