Invoiced without order? Is this allowed?

aldredd

Stinks of desperation to be honest - sounds like they're trying to shame you into paying.
I've subscribed to the thread out of sheer disbelief / curiosity, and will follow with interest.

Perhaps a letter stating that you have no intention of paying as you do not believe you should, and that if they *really* think that you owe it then they should go ahead and file proceedings where you will willingly defend your position - or drop it once & for all.

nry_2

Oh and it appears some other 'documents' have turned up which they have copied and enclosed:

16/6/11 - Hand completed 'Enquiry Form' detailing 'Supply and machine 4no aluminium blocks for engine inlet manifold as as discussed with OVA **** ****' - first I've seen of this, they did not complete this with me when I visited. They have written on a £75+VAT (each) message...

An letter dated 20/6/11 stamped 'E-MAILED' quoting for the parts - note they have quoted for them on this document.

I do not recall seeing the quote via e-mail but no official order was ever placed from this quote...

I'm inclined to pass this to our legal department with our Local Authority, they may well have a field day!?!

nry_2

aldredd wrote: »

Stinks of desperation to be honest - sounds like they're trying to shame you into paying.
I've subscribed to the thread out of sheer disbelief / curiosity, and will follow with interest.

Perhaps a letter stating that you have no intention of paying as you do not believe you should, and that if they *really* think that you owe it then they should go ahead and file proceedings where you will willingly defend your position - or drop it once & for all.

Pretty much what Consumer Direct said! It is a touch soap-opera to be honest! If samples are, as stated in this recent letter, not manufactured free of charge, then they really should not have manufactured the sample without an official order following an official quote!

unholyangel

nry wrote: »

Returned to work and they have sent, on Dec 15th, an account statement and invoice for the same outstanding amount. Contrary to my written request to use my home address which they did receive the week before (recorded delivery and signed for), however as yet there is nothing from Money Claim Online.

Should I still leave it or do I now get picky with them and speak to Trading Standards over potential trading regulation issues as mentioned above?

Cant hurt to speak to trading standards or consumer direct and see what advice they give on how to proceed

DVardysShadow

nry wrote: »

Oh and it appears some other 'documents' have turned up which they have copied and enclosed:

16/6/11 - Hand completed 'Enquiry Form' detailing 'Supply and machine 4no aluminium blocks for engine inlet manifold as as discussed with OVA **** ****' - first I've seen of this, they did not complete this with me when I visited. They have written on a £75+VAT (each) message...

An letter dated 20/6/11 stamped 'E-MAILED' quoting for the parts - note they have quoted for them on this document.

I do not recall seeing the quote via e-mail but no official order was ever placed from this quote...

I'm inclined to pass this to our legal department with our Local Authority, they may well have a field day!?!

Hold your horses.

This outfit are trying to manufacture a claim and also to embarrass you into paying. Your big mistake was to use a work business card for your contact details. This now gives them half a chance of suing your employer too on the argument that you were representing on behalf of your employer. Now if this turns nasty - which it shows every sign of doing - they could start to harass your employer who will be displeased with you when the court papers arrive naming your employer.

So, don't pass it on to your employer's legal department, but do get in touch with them, explain what is happening and that you believe that out of your innocent mistake with the business card and ask what supporting info they would like from you. Make it very clear that at no time did you represent to be doing business on behalf of anyone but yourself. Take a name of who you speak to and write a quick note to them confirming the discussion.

This will save your backside from a roasting when the legal department get the claim from this outfit and managers run around like bluebrassed fliestrying to find out why they are being sued for £300 + VAT. The last thing you want is your employer caving to a legal threat, not knowing what it is about, paying up and then chasing you for the loss!

nry_2

I have no doubt my employer will have the same opinion as me - the Head is my direct line manager, he would in no way be looking to pay the invoice nor entertain any idea that I have acted in any way negatively towards them as an employer. My only 'hindsight' error was leaving my work business card, at the time the staff I was dealing with were pleasant and friendly and this was easier than writing my number down...lesson learnt.

The transcript of the latest letter is full of flaws and contradicts previous correspondence from the trader, to quote:

I am currently investigating an outstanding account for a manufactured component for ***** as instructed by your employee Mr *** ****. When discussing the component with my workshop manager Mr *** provided your name and address on his business card (copy enclosed) as the contact/invoicing address. Mr *** has since claimed the invoice was a personal invoice and should not be directed to your company. This is however unacceptable as a credit account would not be issued to an individual and all goods would require payment at the point of order or on completion of work if a price had not been given.

To clarify our position, *** do not manufacture samples free of charge. All time and materials booked by employees of the company are chargeable to all customers instructing ***** to carry out work.

If Mr ***** is not authorised to order work on behalf of your company I would request your written response in how you would suggest we proceed with the claim for our outstanding invoice. Mr ******** has stated that he is not prepared to make payment as detailed in his letter dated 1st December 2011 (enclosed).

The court summons has now been placed on hold for a period of 28 days. I await your response to the above issues by Monday 9th January 2012.


So there you go. I never instructed any work nor placed any order - the work done to produce the sample was offered by the workshop manager and CNC engineer and my work card was left for the phone number - they did not at any time ask for contact phone numbers or an address. No mention was ever made of opening up a credit account with this company in the name of my employer.

They are not able to issue a court summons - they can submit a claim to the Small Claims Track of the Court process or they can (as already threatened) submit a claim through Money Claim Online. Neither of these routes guarantee any action will be taken against me or 100% require a court summons so not only have they refused to acknowledge my home address for a personal issue they have also now written to my employer directly who is and has never been considered the debtor in the situation until the letter above. So far as I make out this could well be classed as harrassment and as I have now requested a copy of the order for this part before I am willing to pay, and this has not been supplied, I think I'm further right in saying
that they are unable to submit any claim without first providing this evidence?

I suspect my employers written response will be that the school has no doubt that my version of events is the truth and request that all further correspondence is sent to my home address, with the caveat that further correspondence on this matter sent to my work address will be passed to the County Council legal team.

CapJ

arcon5 wrote: »

how would using his work address constitute harassment whereas using his home address wouldn't?
Infact if op claimed harassment having received just 2 or 3 letters I think a judge would laugh at him!

Because he asked them not to and gave them an alternative means of contacting him. Therefore why are they sending letters to the work address - they can contact him another way. Unless they can justify to a judge the reason for sending the letters to his work address they could find themselves in hot water.

Incidentally the number of letters is irrelevant (though the frequency may be relevant but is not the only factor).

CapJ

Sorry, just catching up. This is indeed now criminal harassment, the problem is proving it. If you can prove from any of their previous letters that they were treating you as an individual you have a case (for harassment). Otherwise it is your word against theirs. To whom was the first invoice made out to?

Please push trading standards on this. This is totally unacceptable behaviour and the people behind this should rightly face criminal sanctions for trying to embarass someone into paying a debt they don't owe.

WhiteHorse

If you are a private individual being sued by a company, you can request that the hearing be heard at the court nearest you. This may cause them still greater inconvenience and expense, something that you could if necessary point out to them.

That the MD is so keen on small sums of money suggests that the firm might not be too solvent. Poking around in their accounts might be interesting.

DVardysShadow

CapJ wrote: »

Because he asked them not to and gave them an alternative means of contacting him. Therefore why are they sending letters to the work address - they can contact him another way. Unless they can justify to a judge the reason for sending the letters to his work address they could find themselves in hot water.

Incidentally the number of letters is irrelevant (though the frequency may be relevant but is not the only factor).

You would like to think so.

But they are staking out their claim as the OP representing the deal as on behalf of the employer and they have plausible grounds [the business card] to do this. So no hot water expected really.