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Labour and the Euro summit
Graham_Devon
Posts: 58,560 Forumite
I write this after just watching Douglas Alexander talk about how David Cameron has failed the country, put us at risk, and not got what he planned to get.
When asked, but more told that Labour would have had to have done exactly the same, this was ignored, and we were back to "we are isolated, Cameron has isolated us".
What do Labour want? What is their issue? Would they really have bent over backwards, accepted a TOBIN tax? Accepted Brussels overlooking our budgets before we are "allowed" to go ahead with them?
How could David Cameron have forced the rest of the countries to accept what we said? Douglas Alexander seems to believe David Cameron could have simply stated how things were going to work.
Seriously, can anyone relate to where labour are coming from on this one? Apparently Ed Milliband is on the attack also for the same thing.
If sarkozy etc are not going to accept our wants, what could David Cameron do? What's the point in even giving labour airpsace any more? They simply take the opposite viewpoint no matter what we do. Trying to make out David Cameron has failed us because Sarkozy etc wouldn't accept our wants is desperation beyond belief.
When asked, but more told that Labour would have had to have done exactly the same, this was ignored, and we were back to "we are isolated, Cameron has isolated us".
What do Labour want? What is their issue? Would they really have bent over backwards, accepted a TOBIN tax? Accepted Brussels overlooking our budgets before we are "allowed" to go ahead with them?
How could David Cameron have forced the rest of the countries to accept what we said? Douglas Alexander seems to believe David Cameron could have simply stated how things were going to work.
Seriously, can anyone relate to where labour are coming from on this one? Apparently Ed Milliband is on the attack also for the same thing.
If sarkozy etc are not going to accept our wants, what could David Cameron do? What's the point in even giving labour airpsace any more? They simply take the opposite viewpoint no matter what we do. Trying to make out David Cameron has failed us because Sarkozy etc wouldn't accept our wants is desperation beyond belief.
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Labour and Ed Milliband are going to look seriously out of touch with the mood of the country unless they change their position very quickly. I'm no fan of David Cameron but in general the majority of people in this country want less of Europe not more. I'm not sure if Cameron had done this for the country or his banking mates but either way he's on the right side of the countries mood for the first time in a while.
Much better to be isolate on the quayside and let the Titanic sail off on it's own.[FONT="]“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” ~ Maya Angelou[/FONT][FONT="][/FONT]0 -
There are plenty of countries not even in the EU that manage fine. This "isolation" argument is BS.Faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.0
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I think many Labour politicians will secretly be more shocked by the proposals than the Tories. The Germans have effectively killed off any potential for modern Neo-Keynesian thinking in Europe with the first demand of the new fiscal rule being a 0.5% structural deficit (page 3 of the Euro Area statement). This would have devastated the economy back in 2008-9. Britain's structural deficit according to the European Commission's own "Public finances in EMU 2011" (page 24) was: 4.8% in 2008, 8.9% in 2009, 8.2% in 2010 and a projected 6.5% and 5.3% for 2011 and 2012 respectively. If these rules had been in place in 2009 and Britain played by the rules it would have meant a shortfall of £120bn that would need to be made up from tax rises (e.g. a doubling of income tax would be sufficient if taxpayers didn't change their behaviour - i.e. highly unlikely) or spending cuts (the equivalent of privatising the NHS or stopping all non-pension benefits).
These are hypotheticals of course, there is no way any country could keep to these proposals, which makes the latest agreement either ridiculous or a genuine step on the way of a united states of Europe with formerly 'national' governments having their say superseded by Europe (specifically the Court of Justice based on the statement)."The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else." -- Frederic Bastiat, 1848.0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »What do Labour want? What is their issue? Would they really have bent over backwards, accepted a TOBIN tax?
The're very good at sniping from the sidelines, but as to providing any semblance of a solution? Forget it!0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »
How could David Cameron have forced the rest of the countries to accept what we said? Douglas Alexander seems to believe David Cameron could have simply stated how things were going to work.
Seriously, can anyone relate to where labour are coming from on this one? Apparently Ed Milliband is on the attack also for the same thing.
I would wait to see how the EU Lapdogs from other half of the govt reacts before you have a go at Labour
'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
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Usually I can't stand smug Tories, but I applaud Cameron for having the sphericals to stand up to the EU.
Milliband is a simpering wuss and would probably have capitulated .
I have been a Labour voter all my life (I won't vote for Milliband I would rather vote UKIP)Blessed are the cracked for they are the ones that let in the light
C.R.A.P R.O.L.L.Z. Member #35 Butterfly Brain + OH - Foraging Fixers
Not Buying it 2015!0 -
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Graham_Devon wrote: »Why?
Douglas Alexander is stating this nonsense now. Today. Why should I wait to see what others state?
Because the others (LibDems) are in govt (for now) whereas Labour are not
'Just think for a moment what a prospect that is. A single market without barriers visible or invisible giving you direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million of the worlds wealthiest and most prosperous people' Margaret Thatcher0 -
Miliband has been on twitter saying Cameron should have had more "alliances" before the summit.
As far as I read, it was basically Sarkozy being stubborn, even if we had all of Europe on our side the French wouldn't have backed down.Faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.0
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