Labour and the Euro summit

IanManc

Nigel Farage is trying to find something to criticise because Cameron has shot his Eurosceptic fox, for the moment at least.

ChiefGrasscutter

From my experiences of being in groups of people (committees & boards) when you always get outvoted by the rest every time but have to go along with the decision....is that it is better to be outside and let them get on with it.

One interesting consequence of the latest agreement is that the 17 (or is it 26) can no longer hide behind the UK's coat tails when it comes to having a disagreement with the EU over this accord and its consequences. By this I mean that on any particular issue 'country A' may dislike it and want to veto it, but can stay quiet, quite safe in the knowledge that the UK will kick up a fuss and the whole thing will be abandoned plus the UK will get the blame. 'Country A' can then quietly sigh with relief.......not anymore!

Sweden is making noises about not agreeing and opting out like the UK - mind you they have already tried most of these ideas and abandoned them. They had a Scandanavian monetary union in the 1800's until it collapsed and more recently tried a financial levy tax only to discover, surprise surprise, the financial institutions went elsewhere.

Question - do the Irish have to abandon their low corporation tax as part of the deal.

Kennyboy66

StevieJ wrote: »

I agree, but nothing that happened yesterday had any effect on that.

The status quo is that at present individual states can veto taxation and have control over their own finances and budgets.

The new treaty will move towards having qualified majority voting, and force countries into a straightjacket, from which the only escape is deflation and depression.

In recession and want a Keynesian stimulus ? - tough luck Germany says no.

Want low corporation tax rates to attract US investment ? - tough luck France says no (watch out Ireland).

pqrdef

Graham_Devon wrote: »

There would have been no referendum. There wouldn't have been a general election. What makes you think there would have been?

Cameron would have been in power regardless of if he fully signed up....got his safeguards...or pulled out alltogether.

The "safeguards" are only a figleaf. Even if Cameron had got them, it's unimaginable - even to a Europhile like me - that Britain would sign up to a deal that said British budgets would have to be pre-approved by the Germans. If Cameron had agreed to that, the whole country would be in a state of shock.

And there would have had to be a referendum on it. But then Cameron is snookered. He can't fight for a No vote, against a plan that he's put on the table himself. And he can't fight for a Yes vote and stay party leader, the party wouldn't stand for it. So he has to resign, the Tories elect a new leader who's not acceptable to the LibDems, the coalition breaks up, there has to be a general election.


What's been different this time though is that there's been no attempt to negotiate a compromise. Murky is at the end of her rope. Her spokesdroid said earlier in the week that people would just have to accept the only thing that was on the table whether they liked it or not, or the consequences would be dire. But Cameron only went to Brussels to say no. He hasn't got any better ideas. While he's forced to accept that Europe matters to us, his attitude to it consists only of ill-disguised scorn. Brown, or Blair, or even Thatcher, would have gone to Brussels with a positive counter-proposal.

Or maybe even Miliband - the other one.

StevieJ

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Only because we haven't signed up!!

:wall:

As far as I am aware the purpose of new treaty is related to budgetary controls for EURO members only, a financial tax is separate to this.

MacMickster

I wonder who will pay for the army of Eurocrats who will now be required to oversee and audit all of the national budgets. The taxpayers of the 17 or the 26 or 27? Are we now excluded from the club which will make such decisions?

This is the type of question which should be being asked by the opposition - not just some playground point scoring.

StevieJ

Kennyboy66 wrote: »

The status quo is that at present individual states can veto taxation and have control over their own finances and budgets.

The new treaty will move towards having qualified majority voting, and force countries into a straightjacket, from which the only escape is deflation and depression.

Not if the mighty Finland have their way .

Finland could be joining the ranks of the EU awkward squad (it's a select crowd - only Britain in there at the moment).
The country's finance minister says it could withdraw its support for permanent eurozone bail-out fund if there is not a condition of unanimous voting placed on how it is used.
Last night, EU leaders agreed on the need for "qualified majority" to speed up decision making on bail-outs, to stop individual countries being able to veto rescues

Wheezy_2

As Stevie says, the 'fiscal compact' and excessive deficit procedures would only apply to Eurozone members.

Cameron wanted to avoid a Lisbon treaty change at all cost because of promises made that treaty change = referendum

And that's all there is to it, avoiding confrontation with the Tory backbench. If that's a good way to conduct international politics is another matter.

Butterfly_Brain

Isn't it strange that the ones screaming the loudest are those that are making thousands of pounds from being deeply involved in Europe or MEP's

Thrugelmir

StevieJ wrote: »

As far as I am aware the purpose of new treaty is related to budgetary controls for EURO members only, a financial tax is separate to this.

Two days ago.

The leaders of France and Germany have called jointly for eurozone countries to have common corporation and financial transaction taxes.

The tax policy would apply initially to the 17-member eurozone. France has long complained about Ireland's low corporation tax rate of 12.5%.

The proposal came in a letter to European Council President Herman Van Rompuy, on the eve of a key EU summit.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16075890