Shoddy work and dispute with roofer

slipperyshoe

Hi. I think you missed the point a bit as I am saying that it appears he has not installed what he quoted for (a high performance felt). You should therefore refuse to pay.

Unless it is literally flapping about in the wind it can be overlaid, just the details (drips and skirtings) need removing.

If he won't tell you what it is he laid then don't pay him. Good luck with Building Control, the ones I work with have no idea about flat roofing- hopefully you will have one with a bit more 'practical' knowledge!

Where abouts do you live? On the off chance it is near me Essex/North London, I could come and take a look for a cup of tea and a mince pie!

Christyt

Hi daggy - I don't think any regulations apply to whether the roof sticks down properly (do they?). The roof structure should comply (after I made sure they'd put the cross battens on etc). It's a quality of work issue and yes, I'll refuse to pay until it's stuck down properly at the very least.

Building regs are dueto come this morning to have a look - will look into other inspector too.

Christyt

Hi Slipperyshoe -hadn't seen your latest post. I'm in Brighton- would gladly treat you to a cuppa and mince pie! Bit out of your way though sadly.

The building regs guy just came round. He said he thought it looked ok and wasn't the worst quality felt (was a new more flexible type he said). Said he wasn't worried about the laps being easy to get under unless there was standing water on the roof in which case we should take them to trading standards. I'm not overly confident about his opinion - he decided he didn't need to come back to site on the day after just seeing the materials on site. Seemed a bit of a flaky attitude to me. Also confirmed this is an exempt building so I have no idea why they let me pay for building regs consent at all! I'm starting to feel shafted from all directions.

However, there's no standing water so that's something. I can try and find out what he used.

It was the conservatory seal down pipe issue that was the big bugbear - but as there was nothing specific specified in the quote as an alternative to boxing it in, I think I'm just going to have to pay the man and see if he can be bothered to come back to box it in for an extra £150. And if not, pay someone else to.

Out of interest, if anyone can be bothered, is there a big difference, in terms of work and materials involved, between doing these two things?:

1 - adding noggins to extend existing joists around 3 sides of roof in order to fit continuous soffit vents - then fitting cross battens, deck and roofing on top.

2 - Replacing joists to fit continuous soffit vents, and rebuilding the rest of the roof.

Christyt

I just asked the guy what type of roofing felt he used and he texted back - 'why'.

This is what i'm dealing with. He's waiting for the trap so he'll probably lie anyway.

Christyt

He's come back with Anderson tecno torch - or Anderson technatorch. Looking at these spec datasheets online (http://www.icopal.co.uk/Products/Bitumen_Roofing/Torch_On_Roofing/SBS_Torch_On_Membranes/Tecnatorch_SBS_Torch_On_Capsheets.aspx) they do sand or mineral and judging by the look of the roof it doesn't look like sand to me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/6515389431/

http://www.icopal.co.uk/Products/Bitumen_Roofing/Torch_On_Roofing/SBS_Torch_On_Membranes/Tecnatorch_SBS_Torch_On_Capsheets.aspx

However these are torchon sheets so should therefore, as you said before, be 'welded' on and I shouldn't be able to a scraper under the lap?

If so would it be an option to lift up the loose bits, heat them again with the torch and stick back down? or should it be completely relaid? It's loose in a few places - I'm going to go and take a picture that shows them all.

To reiterate what was in the quote:

"Supply and fix a new 3 no layer high performance built up felt roof
All felt to be fully bonded with hot bitumen
All felt to be fully sealed at abutment of adjoining conservatory"

slipperyshoe

Christyt wrote: »

He's come back with Anderson tecno torch - or Anderson technatorch. Looking at these spec datasheets online (http://www.icopal.co.uk/Products/Bitumen_Roofing/Torch_On_Roofing/SBS_Torch_On_Membranes/Tecnatorch_SBS_Torch_On_Capsheets.aspx) they do sand or mineral and judging by the look of the roof it doesn't look like sand to me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/6515389431/

http://www.icopal.co.uk/Products/Bitumen_Roofing/Torch_On_Roofing/SBS_Torch_On_Membranes/Tecnatorch_SBS_Torch_On_Capsheets.aspx

However these are torchon sheets so should therefore, as you said before, be 'welded' on and I shouldn't be able to a scraper under the lap?

If so would it be an option to lift up the loose bits, heat them again with the torch and stick back down? or should it be completely relaid? It's loose in a few places - I'm going to go and take a picture that shows them all.

To reiterate what was in the quote:

"Supply and fix a new 3 no layer high performance built up felt roof
All felt to be fully bonded with hot bitumen
All felt to be fully sealed at abutment of adjoining conservatory"

hi- you are right if it was installed in hot bitumen it would not be Technatorch but Monarflex. Icopal is an industry giant but that is their cheap rubbish. I would try giving their technical department a call and seeing what they have to say about it. It is a High perfromance felt but the SBS content is minimal and it is a bit on the thin side. I wouldnt touch it. The sand is the underlay by the way and the mineral is the capsheet so you will have both.

If it was laid in hot bitumen you cant really heat it up and stick it down again with a torch but I suppose you could pull it up and stick it down with more bitumen.

Generally pour and roll systems are outdated and not used. I would personally never specify it and would run a mile if someone tried to put it on my roof!

Building Control sound as knowledgable as always then! If installed correctly a flat roof can have as much standing water as the structure can take, it is not a problem and has no effect on guarantee or lifespan. In fact we line canals and reservoirs with the stuff!

In answer to the cost comparison there is not a huge amount of difference in the two options.

Im afraid Brighton is a bit far for me although I did go to Uni there and am tempted!:D

Christyt

Took a pic of all the bits that are lifting and slid paper under them!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/6520908673/in/photostream

The guys were definitely installing it with a torch so I presume they wouldnt' have been doing both at the same time.

Just phoned technical department and they say it shouldn't lift up and should have 5mm bead (as you said). Said if you can get enough lift you could possibly re-torch but you risk damaging the surface.

I would say at least half of the bits that have lifted would not give you enough space to retorch without damaging the roofing.

So - all the above being the case, I should email him and say re-lay or I won't pay?

daggy

Christyt wrote: »

Took a pic of all the bits that are lifting and slid paper under them!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/6520908673/in/photostream

The guys were definitely installing it with a torch so I presume they wouldnt' have been doing both at the same time.

Just phoned technical department and they say it shouldn't lift up and should have 5mm bead (as you said). Said if you can get enough lift you could possibly re-torch but you risk damaging the surface.

I would say at least half of the bits that have lifted would not give you enough space to retorch without damaging the roofing.

So - all the above being the case, I should email him and say re-lay or I won't pay?

That looks like a shoddy job, the average DIYer might have done a better job.

The cement around the drain pipe is ghastly... also, cement absorbs moisture, does it not? Eventually it will crumble?

If I were you I'd e-mail him and make him aware of your concerns... if his response is not satisfactory, then refuse to pay until it's made good.

slipperyshoe

Christyt wrote: »

Took a pic of all the bits that are lifting and slid paper under them!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/6520908673/in/photostream

The guys were definitely installing it with a torch so I presume they wouldnt' have been doing both at the same time.

Just phoned technical department and they say it shouldn't lift up and should have 5mm bead (as you said). Said if you can get enough lift you could possibly re-torch but you risk damaging the surface.

I would say at least half of the bits that have lifted would not give you enough space to retorch without damaging the roofing.

So - all the above being the case, I should email him and say re-lay or I won't pay?

Wow, that is a shocking job. Don't pay and to to be honest I'm not sure I would even want him to install another layer. Unbelievable.

Ask him if he is a member of the NFRC (National Federation of Roofing Contractors and if he is contact them with those photos).

Christyt

He's a member of FMB, European Builders Confederation (EBC) and Buy with Confidence, none of which seem to have any teeth for the consumer. The only way to lever him, other than not paying until fixed to my standards (and every one's on this forum as it happens) is to go to Trading Standards and use the FMB dispute resolution service perhaps?

He's got 500+ rave reviews on Checkatrade. That's more than just aunts and uncles and best mates. I just don't get it.