Shoddy work and dispute with roofer

Christyt

slipperyshoe wrote: »

Hi there. Glad to be of help. Torch on felt should have a bead of bitumen exuded from all laps (pour and roll or hot bitumen should not). You cannot insist on this as it possible (but unlikely) that they have achieved a good seal without this. I would get on the roof and stick a scraper in the laps to see if they are welded. Remember the word to remember here is welded; rolls of felt are not stuck together, they should actually be welded, therefore you should not be able to put a scraper, screwdriver or anything else in the lap.

Further to SlipperyShoe's advice I've managed to get a scraper under whole strips of lap so it's not been properly sealed.

(see pics here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/sets/72157628428325037/)

They had said "supply and fix a new 3no layer high performance built up felt roof. All felt to be fully bonded with hot bitumen. All felt to be fully sealed at abutment of adjoining conservatory".

So maybe not a torch on method but it's not been 'fully sealed'. And the guy has ranted about the quality of his work.

He came back and laid on a load of sand and cement on top of the flash tape he'd loosely wound around the downpipe. This is to hold the water out before he is supposed to come back and properly box it in. (also in pics - http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/sets/72157628428325037/)

DaftyDuck

I am a pretty amateur DIY bloke. I have patched a few flat roofs myself. They looked more like that when I started. They did not look like that when I had finished.

I'm sorry I can't really offer you any helpful advice, but for my two pennyworth, that is not a job I would feel comfortable paying for. Water will penetrate, wind will lift, and it simply won't last, even if it does work for a month or two - which I think would be unlikely anyway.

Christyt

Oh god. Thanks Daftyduck. It gets worse and worse. I presume you're just referring to the flat roof here? Do you think it's a case of re-laying completely or can they stick the loose bits down in situ (with bitumen?). I just need to know what I should ask them to do.

daggy

Christyt wrote: »

Hi daggy,

Kn*b is one word I could use.

When I asked him not to box in, he agreed but said, and I quote "will do best we can but will not guarantee this as pipes through conservatory are always a problem".

So I guess the bone of contention is that he said his best is to loosely wrap the pipe in tape. Don't know how you'd interpret that. He didn't specify what he'd do instead. I think if that's all you've got to offer as an alternative (utterly utterly useless) you should refuse. What do you think?

RE an inspector - a good idea but I've no idea who I should ask and what authority they'd have if they found his work to be substandard. Can you/anyone suggest who I could go to for that?

I could think of several other words too, but I like this forum and don't want to get banned lol

The only thing that could go against you is that he told you he might not be able to seal around the pipe and you still agreed to carry on...

If it were me and he'd said he'd, 'do his best', I'd have told him to pack up and funk off. That's easier to say when you're sitting at a computer than when you're actually in the situation though.

When we got our wet room down, they didn't locate the shower in accordance with the plan and I tried being polite about it a few times, but they basically ignored me. I eventually crossed my submissive line and insisted that they move it.... they did. Sometimes you have to put your foot down early on, I wish I had.

He sounds like he's either lazy or not very competent.

RE: the inspector, I'm not sure to be honest, but someone else may be able to suggest something.

Possibly a building regs type inspector, not sure what they are called.

Christyt

It's a tricky one and a bit ambiguous I know - but I would have thought it shouldn't be actually worse after the work than before, so whatever he did or didn't do, he made it worse around the pipe.

Building regs will be coming round to look at the flat roof and hopefully will advise on what I should request for it to be done properly. Will ask him to take a look at the leading and pipe and maybe he'll have an idea of what to do.

slipperyshoe

Oh dear, sounds like a bit of a mess. Your quote says 'laid in hot bitumen'. This refers to the traditional 'pour and roll method'. There are very few high performance pour and roll felts on the market so it is likely the felt is a load of ****. When he installed it did he use a pitch pot and fill it with bitumen or did he have a gas torch ? With regards to the laps, if he used pour and roll you would probably be able to force a scraper underneath but if it pulls up or goes in very easily he did not heat the bitumen enough. Ask him for the make and type of felt he used and I'll tell you if it is high performance.

I'm drifting off the subject a bit here but if the room below was heated then you should have had insulation installed. Part L of 2010 Building Regs requires that when refurbishing you should thermally upgrade to meet a U-value of 0.18W/m2 K (do't be scared by this it basically means that you should have had 120mm of rigid insulation installed). If he didnt do this I would refuse to pay and if he gets arsy tell him that you will report him to buildng control etc and/or trading standards.

beaker141

slipperyshoe wrote: »

I'm drifting off the subject a bit here but if the room below was heated then you should have had insulation installed. Part L of 2010 Building Regs requires that when refurbishing you should thermally upgrade to meet a U-value of 0.18W/m2 K (do't be scared by this it basically means that you should have had 120mm of rigid insulation installed). If he didnt do this I would refuse to pay and if he gets arsy tell him that you will report him to buildng control etc and/or trading standards.

Whose responsibility is it to meet building regs - the person specifying the work or the person doing the work?

To answer my own Question I searched and found this:-

Part L1B – Who is responsible for complying ?

Since an amendment to the rules in October 2010 the builder/installer now has primary responsibility for meeting the Regulations and the home-owner will only be pursued as a secondary measure if the builder etc cannot be traced. Previously the home-owner had sole responsibility but now the Builder and also the architect has to take responsibility.

Christyt

It is a mess. He used a hot torch definitely. I don't remember there being any hot bitumen around but it was virtually dark at this point and I couldn't be 100%. I suppose one should be able to see it in the bits that lift up?.

RE the insulation - fine there as room is unheated. We put some in anyway.

Very interesting re who is responsible for the regs - not sure any roofers know or care about that from what I can tell. Not sure if that's much help if you run into trouble when selling a house though...

Christyt

slipperyshoe wrote: »

Oh dear, sounds like a bit of a mess. Your quote says 'laid in hot bitumen'. This refers to the traditional 'pour and roll method'. There are very few high performance pour and roll felts on the market so it is likely the felt is a load of ****. When he installed it did he use a pitch pot and fill it with bitumen or did he have a gas torch ? With regards to the laps, if he used pour and roll you would probably be able to force a scraper underneath but if it pulls up or goes in very easily he did not heat the bitumen enough. Ask him for the make and type of felt he used and I'll tell you if it is high performance.]

I shouldn't think he'll be wanting or be bothered to tell me what kind of felt he used, but I presume, if it's easy to lift I can insist he does it again? Would that involve taking it all up and relaying it?

daggy

Christyt wrote: »

slipperyshoe wrote: »

Oh dear, sounds like a bit of a mess. Your quote says 'laid in hot bitumen'. This refers to the traditional 'pour and roll method'. There are very few high performance pour and roll felts on the market so it is likely the felt is a load of ****. When he installed it did he use a pitch pot and fill it with bitumen or did he have a gas torch ? With regards to the laps, if he used pour and roll you would probably be able to force a scraper underneath but if it pulls up or goes in very easily he did not heat the bitumen enough. Ask him for the make and type of felt he used and I'll tell you if it is high performance.]

I shouldn't think he'll be wanting or be bothered to tell me what kind of felt he used, but I presume, if it's easy to lift I can insist he does it again? Would that involve taking it all up and relaying it?

I'd assume he has no choice.... I think you're being too tolerant, if it were me I'd be chasing him off my land with a baseball bat as encouragement.

If you're unhappy with his work, the best thing you could do is sit down and make him aware of it... he may offer to fix things, but if he doesn't don't hand him a penny until you and an inspector are happy that the work is compliant.

Quote the above regulation... after all, if he doesn't want to make it good, he's liable for the repair costs anyway.

Also, if you do get any remedial work, make sure you get that building surveyor type person to do an inspection before as proof of the defective work... make sure you take some videos and photos of the problem too.