Shoddy work and dispute with roofer

Christyt

Hi there,

I recently had a flat roof renewed and some lead flashing installed to re-seal a poorly taped seal between conservatory and back of house.

Roofer has done work and it's patchy to say the least, but there are three of bigger bones of contention I'd be grateful for a 2nd or 3rd opinion on:

1 - During job he came to me and said the joists were rotten and needed replacing after all. There are about 7 of these, 3m long, 4" joists on roof (it is a small 3x3m flat roof).

He said would cost extra £300 plus VAT. He said would we be ok to pay for that (£80 of that is labour he said), if not he'd absorb it.

I was being harrassed by my 2year old and am prepared to pay what I owe so at the time said I'd pay. Don' t ask me why. Partly cos the guy was intimidating and to be honest I was afraid if we had a dispute this early in the job he'd do the rest of the job badly.

Since then I've realised that he would have had to have replaced the joists anyway as he needed to create an overhang to fit continuous soffit vents as required by building regs. He'd bumped up the quote by £500 to account for extra carpentary when he realised we wanted soffit vents.

I've got pictures of the roof fascia before and after so you can see it was flush before roof fitted and therefore joists weren't long enough.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/sets/72157628343830381/

Basically - I think he's trying to charge me twice for the work needed to install the soffit vents and using the fact that some (not all) of them were a bit rotten.

So I'm planning on not paying that extra £300 after all.

2 - Part of the conservatory seal job meant going round cast iron pipe (you can see this in pics). http://www.flickr.com/photos/31267686@N03/sets/72157628343830381/
I realise this cannot be sealed with flashing and would be difficult to do, but he's done nothing to seal around the pipe of any description.

3 - Guarantee. His original quote said ALL WORK GUARANTEED 10 years, including conservatory seal, new roof.
I emailed him to make sure it would include the seal as I was surprised he'd guarantee it - he clarified, in the email that all but the part going around the pipe would be guaranteed.
After doing the job he's saying he will not guaranatee the seal after all, none of it.
I'm presuming I'm within my rights (in theory) to hold him to the guarantee terms he agreed in writing?

ormus

that is appalling work. an average diyer could do better.
get him back to rectify it.
otherwise get another roofer in to correct it, and inform the first one that you will be billing him.

Christyt

Thanks Ormus. This is going to be fun. Do you have any view on me refusing to pay extra for joists and his back tracking on the guarantee?

DTDfanBoy

The majority of what he has door looks pretty shoddy at best, hopefully you haven't paid him anything to date. I'd be inclined to get another roofer in for a look, if it's that bad externally lord only know what's it's like underneath, especially if he's replaced joists.

At least then you'll have an idea as to what needs to be rectified, and how it should be carried out.

slipperyshoe

Quality of workmanship does not look great. FYI all laps on the felt should have a bead of bitumen (ideal is 13mm).

Lead flashings should not be over 1.5m in length in accordance with the recommendations of the Lead Development Association and the Lead Sheet Association, any longer than this and you should refuse to pay. If it was me I would prefer a 300mm wide strip of lead which ran down over the glazing on the conservatory but if the pitch of roof is less than 15 degrees this wouldnt be posiible.

The collar around the SVP to the conservatory could be done in lead, but it would take a seriously skilled lead worker to do it. The flange of the collar could be tucked back up and under the lead cover flashing. The top of the collar should be sealed with a jubilee clip and mastic.

slipperyshoe

Lastly his guarantee is unlikely to be worth the paper it is written on anyway so I would not worry too much about it.

order

The work does not look finished properly, I would consider talking with the building control officer or building reg's at council if there is any conflicting agreements between you and the roofer. What they say has to be adhered to. Don't pay any more money as this work has not been complete, and or to satisfactory standard!

Christyt

Hi Slippery Shoe,

Thanks for this advice - I'll go home and check the leading being 1.5m. Have a feeling it is but need to double check.

Re your other comments, just wanted to clarify if poss the following:

slipperyshoe wrote: »

Quality of workmanship does not look great. FYI all laps on the felt should have a bead of bitumen (ideal is 13mm).]

I think they used a torchon method - should it still have a bitumen bead then?

[it was me I would prefer a 300mm wide strip of lead which ran down over the glazing on the conservatory but if the pitch of roof is less than 15 degrees this wouldnt be posiible.]

I was thinking the lead looked a bit short. The roof is quite shallow, probably is less than 15 degrees. Why can't the lead be laid longer when the pitch is shallow?


[The collar around the SVP to the conservatory could be done in lead, but it would take a seriously skilled lead worker to do it. The flange of the collar could be tucked back up and under the lead cover flashing. The top of the collar should be sealed with a jubilee clip and mastic.

I'm wondering how far I'm in my rights to insist on these things. SOunds like I can insist onthe 1.5m length of lead guidance, but can I insist they lead around the pipe if it wasn't discussed or specified before the job?

Also - should that pvc bead they put between the lead and the cement be there?

Thanks a million for advice.

slipperyshoe

Hi there. Glad to be of help. Torch on felt should have a bead of bitumen exuded from all laps (pour and roll or hot bitumen should not). You cannot insist on this as it possible (but unlikely) that they have achieved a good seal without this. I would get on the roof and stick a scraper in the laps to see if they are welded. Remember the word to remember here is welded; rolls of felt are not stuck together, they should actually be welded, therefore you should not be able to put a scraper, screwdriver or anything else in the lap.

Regarding the SVP detail, I'm not too sure what was agreed and what was priced. What I can say is that flashband (thats what has been used) is not a permanant solution.

The chase for lead flashings should either be pointed using sand and cement or a mastic such as lead mate. There is no problem with either, although done properly I personally prefer sand and cement (as far as I'm aware no manufacturer of silicone gives more than a 10 yr guarantee when used externally).

Hope this helps

slipperyshoe

Regarding the lead going onto the flat area, you cant do this due to the risk of capillary action. The water can be sucked back up if the lead is on the main area which could cause problems.

Please feel free to thank me for my answers; I've promised myself that I will never post again if the thanked vs posted ratio slips into the red!

BargainGalore

I wouldn't have him back that roofer is a cowboy, I could do a better job and I am no roofer