Stopping on double yellow lines to pick someone up

JimmyTheWig

Morning,

I've just had a PCN through the post from the council. Grrr.

Basically, I stopped on double yellow lines.
My wife was there with the kids.
She left the kids with me and went to the shops.
I put the kids and buggy into the car and drove off.
The engine was running the whole time as I wasn't parking.

One of those cctv cars pulled up near-by and I've been sent a PCN on the basis of
02J Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force.


My question is, was I allowed to do what I did?
I thought that you were allowed to stop on double yellow lines to pick someone up?
Are they counting putting the buggy in the car as "loading"? If so, is that fair?
The photo shows me bent down at the buggy next to the open driver's door.

Does it depend on the signs on the street?
Obviously if it was "no stopping" then I would be in the wrong. But that's not the case.
What if there were signs saying "no waiting"? I don't believe there were, but can check tomorrow.

I don't believe on wriggling out of these things on a technicality. If I wasn't supposed to do what I did then I'll learn my lesson, pay the £55 and know not to do it again.
But before that can happen I need to know (a) whether what I did was wrong and (b) what exactly it was about what I did which was wrong. Would rather get that sort of info from you guys than the council as I know who I trust more!


Thanks,

Jim

JimmyTheWig

I'm also miffed at how long it took to come through. Happened on 26th November. Date of notice is 8th December.
Surely it's a pretty much automated process?

Mojisola

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=highwaycode_parking

You MUST NOT wait or park on yellow lines during the times of operation shown on nearby time plates (or zone entry signs if in a Controlled Parking Zone) – see 'Information signs' and 'Road markings'. Double yellow lines indicate a prohibition of waiting at any time even if there are no upright signs. You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passengers, on school entrance markings (see 'Road markings') when upright signs indicate a prohibition of stopping.

JimmyTheWig

To me, that suggests that to "stop to set down and pick up passengers" is different to to "wait or park".
It also suggests that to "stop to set down and pick up passengers" is only not allowed on school entrance markings and is allowed on double yellow lines.

Do you agree?

Mark_Hewitt

Mojisola wrote: »

www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069860?CID=TAT&PLA=url_mon&CRE=highwaycode_parking

You MUST NOT wait or park on yellow lines during the times of operation shown on nearby time plates (or zone entry signs if in a Controlled Parking Zone) – see 'Information signs' and 'Road markings'. Double yellow lines indicate a prohibition of waiting at any time even if there are no upright signs. You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passengers, on school entrance markings (see 'Road markings') when upright signs indicate a prohibition of stopping.

That's two seperate MUST NOT's, one for double yellows one for school entrance markings.

Stopping on double yellows, to load / unload, pickup / setdown passengers is legal as far as I know.

JimmyTheWig

Mark_Hewitt wrote: »

Stopping on double yellows, to load / unload, pickup / setdown passengers is legal as far as I know.

Thanks Mark.
The PCN describes the street as "where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force".
There are loading bays on the other side of the road (where the cctv car stopped, I believe!) so I'm happy to accept that I wouldn't be allowed to stop where I did to load/unload.
But does this also apply to picking up passengers? I didn't think so.

Can anyone confirm?
Are there any signs that prevent you from stopping to pick people up?
Is there a time limit when picking someone up becomes something more? Obviously getting three children and a buggy into the car takes longer than an adult would getting into the car.


Incidentally, I was not causing an obstruction. The photos on the PCN show this clearly. I know that's not an excuse, but it's important to me!

Sirdan

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Thanks Mark.
The PCN describes the street as "where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force".
There are loading bays on the other side of the road (where the cctv car stopped, I believe!) so I'm happy to accept that I wouldn't be allowed to stop where I did to load/unload.
But does this also apply to picking up passengers? I didn't think so.

Can anyone confirm?
Are there any signs that prevent you from stopping to pick people up?
Is there a time limit when picking someone up becomes something more? Obviously getting three children and a buggy into the car takes longer than an adult would getting into the car.


Incidentally, I was not causing an obstruction. The photos on the PCN show this clearly. I know that's not an excuse, but it's important to me!

As far as I am aware dropping off / picking up passengers is classed as "loading/unloading" which means it IS allowed IF there are no restrictions on loading/unloading.

You need to check if there are any signs re loading/unloading restrictions and if there are any kerb markings which indicate no loading/unloading.

Look here (scroll down the page) it shows you the kerb markings I mean,

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_191927.pdf

sarahg1969

I'd repost this on pepipoo. There may be issues with the use of CCTV as well. You might want to ask the council how many PCNs were issued by CCTV during the period for, say, 6 months up to your PCN, and how many were issued by CEO. They shouldn't really be using both, but many councils do.

johnnyreggae

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070563.pdf

My instinct is that you are wrong : 'waiting' the word suggests a brief stop so a zone that is no waiting at any time (ie double yellow) must include stopping to load a buggy - but the more I read the more the suggestion is that passenger 'boarding & alighting' is permitted under pretty much any circumstances

Mojisola

I'll be interested in the outcome. I always avoid double yellow lines because I'd hate to get a ticket but johnnyreggae's link does imply it's okay to do what you did.

JimmyTheWig

Sirdan wrote: »

As far as I am aware dropping off / picking up passengers is classed as "loading/unloading" which means it IS allowed IF there are no restrictions on loading/unloading.

You need to check if there are any signs re loading/unloading restrictions and if there are any kerb markings which indicate no loading/unloading.

Look here (scroll down the page) it shows you the kerb markings I mean,

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_191927.pdf

Sirdan, your link seems to contradict what you say, doesn't it? First paragraph:

Drivers may stop to pick up or set down passengers and, where not prohibited, to load and unload.

Is this not saying that loading and unloading may be prohibited, but picking up / setting down passengers isn't?

From the photo I can see that the marks on the kerb indicate that loading isn't permitted, as I would have guessed.
But it looks like from the directgov links that that doesn't mean picking people up is still allowed.