OR call yesterday - car being taken

skintandfat

I would get a second valuation and make sure you include the dents etc

When my car was taken the guy told me which auction place he was going to.
I would suggest you make an offer and pay what they want or buy it back at auction

Swans1912

singingsister wrote: »

Think my dad is happy to lend us the full amount although the OR did say we can put in an "offer" for the car. But then they said they don't have to accept it.

On a car worth £1100, what would you say is a reasonable offer?

I think the OR is giving you a hint there. If the car is worth £1000 - by the time you take recovery fees, sale fees, commission etc there will be very little left over. The suggestion of £375 sounds like a sensible one.

Wish you all the best

Polly_Wolly_Doodle

Sorry the OR seems to be unreasonable, the thing i'd add is don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If you resign from your job it may not be so easy to get another and in the meantime you are losing adding to your pension( if you have one), paid holidays and sick pay etc and of course a reference for when you do move jobs.

If the car is reliable and you want to use it then maybe getting your dad to buy it would be fine, but if not then let the OR take it with all the baby mess:p and see if your Dad can buy a car that you can use.

If your DH write's it off then that isn't going to do his / your insurance premiums any good in the future and that's the big thing, look at the future for you and your baby, don't get hung up with the OR, BR is a solution so try and remember that.:)

PWDxxx

kepar

If the OR is taking your car, I presume then that you have not been given any car related allowances in your SOA( as in tax, insurance, fuel etc). Although you will be claiming for travelling will you have enough spare to run the car if you can buy it back?

alastairq

Hi.........For those lurkers especially who are watching this thread unfold.....the OP's feelings, concerns and worries hilite the need for individuals contemplating, or about to petition for, BR....to make themselves thoroughly aware of the rules, conditions, why's and wherefores that BR involves.

BR isn't a 'tick-the-box' exercise.

The Examiner at the OR's office can only proceed in realising a BR's assets, dealing with creditors and other legally-required investigations, based upon the evidence presented to them.

Initially much of that evidence is presented in the forms that a BR submits to Court.

I presume..in this instance, both the OP and DH petitioned BR on the same day..or thereabouts?

In any event, if a proper understanding of how vehicles can form assets, or be exempted as such, quite early on, might have led to the car in question being assigned as an asset with the OP instead of DH?

Although this may, at first glance, appear to be an instance of 'transfer of assets'...when a couple purchase, ie own a car for joint use, which of the two actually 'own' it is a moot and arguable point. The name on the V5c is irrelevant....as is the primary insurance policyholder.


In my view, given the circumstances of this thread, listing the car as an asset in the OP's BR instead of DH's would doubtless have led to a different outcome.


Hindsight is marvellous, isn't it?

Regarding valuations?

Parker's lowest valuation seems to be the consensus on this forum..however, Parker's lowest still presumes a reasonable condition.... Damage, excessive wear 'n tear,etc all contribute towards lowering the 'value ' even further, until one arrives at 'scrap value'...which the Receiver will still take, BTW.

[Regarding the OP's views on the matter, the OR is duty-bound to realise assets in a BR...in this instance, the car hasn't received an exemption as an asset....due perhaps to what I pointed out above?...The actual amount realised really doesn't matter to the OR....who won't see the car anyway....]

So it is really important when initially filling out the Court forms, to not be too glib regarding seemingly unimportant things like the valuation of a vehicle.

Being brutal in this regard...with evidence in support.....might pay dividends once BR is granted....especially when it comes to OR's interest?


Regarding the OP's description of the car in question.....I'd be tempted to offer the OR...initially, no more than scrap value....which will be less than the figure previously suggested.....using the evidence of severe damage, poor interior condition, and any other faults present to support one's argument.

Hindsight is all very well....however....

Poshtart

I notice that you said it was paid on HP, was this from a joint bank account? If it was and you can evidence this then you can claim it was half paid for by your partner.

debt_doctor

Cars, cars, cars, the most argued about assets in bankruptcy!

Firstly, a non exempt vehicle MUST be realised by the OR if a need cannot be proven by the bankrupt. They are not being mean, they are doing what is required of them.
So, firstly, just who does OWN this car?
You mentioned that "we" paid off the HP on the vehicle - who was the borrower on that agreement?
You also say that you are the main insurance policy holder - does not your policy declare that you are legal owner of the vehicle? Mine does, but thats mine, maybe yours doesn't.
The IS always start with the V5 'log book' being a good indication of ownership- but it does not prove ownership. If there is dispute then the OR should start to look at what I have described above.
So IF you can prove ownership, then you should attempt to do just that.

Now if you can't prove ownership, then your bankrupt (presumably car owning) partner needs to show that it is neccessary for the needs of HIMSELF AND this need may be linked to his families domestic need.

31.2.21 Bankrupt claiming vehicle as exempt property
It the bankrupt's responsibility to satisfy the official receiver that a vehicle is exempt property, i.e. that it is necessary for his/her use personally in his/her employment, business or vocation, or is necessary to meet the basic domestic needs of the bankrupt and his/her family.
In the case of a claim for exemption to meet domestic needs the official receiver must be satisfied that the motor vehicle is necessary to the extent that no practical alternativeexists, to meet a genuine need and not merely a matter of convenience. If the use of a vehicle does not meet the test for necessity the vehicle is vested in the bankruptcy estate and the official receiver as trustee should instead pursue with the bankrupt the option to make a reasonable offer for the purchase of the vehicle (see paragraph 31.2.34).
The bankrupt's claim should be dealt with at the initial interview in either the narrative statement or in supplementary questions to the PIQ.
The bankrupt needs to be able to satisfy the official receiver that the vehicle is both necessary for his/her employment, business or vocation and is necessary personally to the bankrupt. This does not mean that the vehicle must be used exclusively by the bankrupt but it must be necessary to him/her not just to the other users.
Whether or not a vehicle is exempt property is in some cases a difficult question. In such circumstances, official receivers will need to use their discretion and consider each case according to its merits within the guidelines issued to official receivers.In all cases official receivers should apply the guidance strictly and rigorously. It is for the bankrupt to convince the official receiver that any motor vehicle is necessary within the exemptions.The value of the vehicle is not a determining factor.

So the needs of others in the family certainly do need to be taken in to account, but unless a vocation can be shown ie caring responsibility, then it appears to be an uphill task.

DD

singingsister

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Firstly - the car HP was in my husbands name but the payments came out of out joint account.

If we had know, maybe we could have got the car transferred to my name before we went BR - however I'm sure there's a box on the form asking if you've transferred any assets. So surely the OR would see through this.

The plot thickens even more.

When we were on the phone to the OR on Thursday, the figure surrounding the car in conversation was the figure we put on our forms - approx £1100.

When the letter arrived Saturday telling us we've got until the 5th of January to sort something - the letter was rightly address to my husband HOWEVER they have his name wrong in the letter! All the other documentation from the OR has been correct - but this letter is address to Mr A Bloggs when it should be addressed to Mr M Bloggs! Also, the figure on the letter they want for the car is £1650.

That's a new one. Where did THAT figure come from? It's the first time it had been mentioned. The thing is, we are trying to borrow £1000 for the car (aiming to start bidding really low citing the condition of the car and go up if necessary), we have NO chance of getting together potentially £1650!

Hubby is going to ring the OR today to complain about the letter being address incorrectly and to complain about the valuation. He's going to mention all the "faults" with the car and see what the OR says. We are more than happy to take the car somewhere to get it valued in person and get a valuation in writing. Will this make a difference?

Also the OR said we can appeal against the decision. NO mention of you being able to appeal and the process appeared in the letter we received.

:-(

JustinCredibleGillespie

The £1650 is the OR's own valuation of the car.

This happened in my bankruptcy also. CAB put the value of my car down as £600 and I then rec'd a letter with other documents from my OR, they valued my car @ £1050. Take pictures of the dents, scrapes & bumps then make an appt to see the OR in person. I would also get another independant valuation & take that along.

singingsister

My hubby rang the OR.

The valuation came from Parkers and it DOES NOT take into consideration the damage both internal and external.

They advised that we should appeal - take photos - get quotes of cost of repairs etc and also prove that the payments for the HP were coming out of our joint bank account even though the HP agreement was only in my hubby's name. In fact the only reason it was solely put in my hubby's name was that when we bought the car, we were already trying for a baby so figured as I would hopefully be on maternity leave - it made sense to put the car just in my hubby's name who would (hopefully) be working whilst I wasn't.

Seems this has backfired :-(

Also to prove the car insurance is in my name as main policyholder and hubby as named.

They said we should appeal and then, even if the appeal is rejected - we then have 14 days from the date of that letter to buy the car. So that gives us some more time to sort things out. I was worried that if we appealed and it was rejected then waived our right for the option to buy the car.