Good luck to state workers picketing today

julieq

Erm, which government decided it was a sustainable deal? Was that the one who also said there would be no more boom and bust?

And who was it who blew the money? The government leaving the note in the treasury saying all the money was gone?

Couldn't make it up really. Privatise public services. Sooner the better.

Really2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

The average state worker is receiving a pension of just £4000 per year. This is after working for years for comparatively low pay in jobs that frequently have little advancement or other benefits. .

The median average salary-linked public sector pension that is currently being paid out to a pensioner, is worth £5,600 a year.

That is currently paid out EG already retired. Most public sector jobs have better benefits than private jobs. EG Reduced costs on public sector gyms, travel etc.

I love the idea people think the majority of the private sector get other work related benefits, most don't even have a pension scheme let alone anything free or discounted.

ruggedtoast

Really2 wrote: »

To put the shoe on the other foot.

If it is that bed in the public sector why not join the private sector.

When anyone says anything usually against them it is "why don't you join the public sector"

I would like to know if it is that bad, why don't they leave and join us in our non subsidised pension equally low paid jobs?;)

Why should people who have spent years training to do civic minded careers like policing, health, teaching and community work suddenly have to give up on that because less than 30% of the electorate voted for the Tories a couple of years ago?

FTBFun

Good luck to people standing around doing nothing?

A friend of mine is a teacher and posted on Facebook that today he is watching TV and going shopping. Not quite the industrial action the Tolpuddle Martyrs had in mind I suspect.

FTBFun

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Why should people who have spent years training to do civic minded careers like policing, health, teaching and community work suddenly have to give up on that because less than 30% of the electorate voted for the Tories a couple of years ago?

Interesting you've only used the example of the "good" public sector rather than the horrendous number of LGA non-jobs that appear to have popped up in recent years.

Really2

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Why should people who have spent years training to do civic minded careers like policing, health, teaching and community work suddenly have to give up on that because less than 30% of the electorate voted for the Tories a couple of years ago?

Same reason why 90% of the working population should not have to pay for public sector pensions most probably?
Should I ask why someone cleaning toilets in the private sector helps pay the pension of someone on £200K in the public sector? (extreme I know but just as emotive as your argument)

The public sector had no problem with job losses or pension raiding before 2008.
Sorry, but the public sector is not their to hold the county hostage if it is that bad there are many unemployed who are prepared to work for a lot less than they earn.

People have had to lose jobs stop pensions in the private sector, the public sector can not escape what is happening, Greece and Italy prove that.

Labours plan is to borrow more to keep things going, who will pay it back?

julieq

Sorry, are they doing it to be civic minded, or are they doing it to grab a great pension deal?

Even with the changes proposed, the deal on offer is MUCH better than they would get in the private sector. All that's changing is that they're being asked to contribute more themselves instead of raiding other people's cash.

That means more of the tax the private sector generates can be used on actual services that benefit us, rather than paying retired people. The more we have to pay in tax, the less money available to generate private sector profits that pay everyone else's pension too. It's a double theft.

chewmylegoff

Aren't they all just taking their Christmas shopping privilege day?

Mallotum_X

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Really2 wrote: »

If it is that bed in the public sector why not join the private sector?

When anyone says anything usually against the public sector the standard response is "why don't you join the public sector if it is that good?"

I would like to know if it is that bad, why don't they leave and join us in our non subsidised pension equally low paid jobs?

That’s quite a key point, over the last few years salaries have got a lot closer, in many jobs the pay of private is exactly the same for a similar job.

Private sector nurses for example are often on the same or lower pay than NHS without the Pension. Teachers are pretty much the same. We keep getting told that councils "have to pay the market rate".

Salaries are pretty similar in both sectors for similar jobs.

The Public sector/unions have done very well over the last few years, a massive increase in employees, improvements in salary, generally better sick, holiday and flexi time arrangements.

The “if you don’t like the pensions join the public” argument is silly, for many people the same job doesn’t exist in the other sector, so starting again would mean a big cut in salary. Not one anyone would want (in either sector).

The public sector needs to be trimmed, and trimmed hard, but the people at the coalface doing the things we actually need must be protected, and the excessive middle management, senior management and duplication of services should be cut.

We have ended up with a situation where local accountability has meant a doubling up of services, take schools, in general they used to be run centrally from each LEA, with central buying, budgeting and finance functions. Now much of that is 'devolved' meaning schools buy in accounting services, buy some equipment direct (rather than centrally and thus now costs more). Deputies no longer teach, heads are managers. All of this has created waste. Those of us in our 30s were not badly educated, so why the need for change. If all these extra layers of costs were cut, responsibilities taken back by the LEA then the system could be cheaper - less staff, less costs but still fair pay.

This has been replicated in many other sectors all adding extra costs.

The pension and salary issue is in many ways a diversion from the real problem, the public sector is just too big and inefficient, and the wrong people are taking more than their fair share of the money available.

real1314

hallmark wrote: »

Clearly every public sector worker out on strike today hates children.

Otherwise they wouldn't be striking in demand of pensions that can only be supported by cripplingly high taxes on the taxpayers of tomorrow. The Unions would like to somehow fool people into thinking it's the Tories money that we're talking about. And astonishingly, some people are probably stupid enough to actually think that.

Of course it's not. The Government has no money of it's own, only that which is raised by taxing everyone who works. And the ridiculously over-generous pensions that people are striking over today can only be funded by massive tax raises for taxpayers, the brunt of which will be on future taxpayers. Children today can look forward to decades of high taxes as they try to pay for Labours Debt & the lavish public sector pension schemes they bought votes with. In fact it's a safe bet they'll probably be so upset about it they'll go on strike.


I wonder what makes those people on strike hate children so much?

Completely ignoring the fact that the cost of public sector pensions is FALLING, regardless of the proposed reforms.

RenovationMan wrote: »

Yes, good luck to the public sector workers and their gilt edged pensions. Let them eat cake, the quality of which can only be dreamed of by the majority of private sector tax payers.

Says the man who paid off £47k from his mortgage in 18 months; Good luck and well done, but is someone who can spend that sort of cash really in a position to complain about other who earn far less but banked their future in a pension rather than a house?

Really2 wrote: »

That is currently paid out EG already retired. Most public sector jobs have better benefits than private jobs. EG Reduced costs on public sector gyms, travel etc.

I love the idea people think the majority of the private sector get other work related benefits, most don't even have a pension scheme let alone anything free or discounted.

Travel perks? Cheap Gym? Erm, you're guilty of the same myth spreading. Any evidence of this being COMMON in the public sector?