landlord has key???

prudryden

The law of Scotland on this subject of locks is different from that of England.

sammyhammy

In England, and I'm sur it's the same for Scotland, there should be a team at the council called the 'Protection of Vulnerable Adults' team (POVA). They have duty to investigate a report of abuse - this sounds like intimidation and possibly even financial abuse.

If you can get a POVA officer and social services there on Friday it may be enough to get the Landlord to back off. The POVA team is a joint initiative with the police and the Landlord can be warned that he is leaving himself open to complaints if he continues to behave as he is doing. It may be that it could be seen as amounting to harassment.

But, it should be done carefully if the ladies wish to remain at the property. He needs to have boundaries set and be told that this is as much for his benefit as the ladies. Sometimes telling someone to revise their behaviour 'because you know what some people in social services might make of this' is enough to resolve the issue.

Good luck and glad that you care enough to actually do something

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Generally, in tenancy contracts, there is an agreement that tenants will not change locks without the written permission of the LL.

But the landlord has already breached the contract by entering without permission "the landlord and his partner both enter the property without notice or warning at any time day or night (once when one was in bed and the other was in the shower.)" which is pretty serious:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=31178&postcount=8

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=23514&postcount=8

prudryden

franklee wrote:

But the landlord has already breached the contract by entering without permission "the landlord and his partner both enter the property without notice or warning at any time day or night (once when one was in bed and the other was in the shower.)" which is pretty serious:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=31178&postcount=8

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=23514&postcount=8

Since you quoted me. The point of discussion was NOT whether the LL was breaching the contract, which is quite obvious he is. The point was that there was a disagreement by some posters on the status of the law regarding the LL having a key. Having a key and misusing that trust are two different discussions. You are misapplying the information I posted to a different issue;.;)

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Since you quoted me. The point of discussion was NOT whether the LL was breaching the contract, which is quite obvious he is. The point was that there was a disagreement by some posters on the status of the law regarding the LL having a key. Having a key and misusing that trust are two different discussions. You are misapplying the information I posted to a different issue;.;)

Your posts read like you were saying that it's not OK for the tenants in any case (which would include this one) to change the locks without the landlord's permission and without giving the landlord a key.

Just to clarify, do you agree that these tenants, i.e. the two ladies in this particular case are entitled to change the locks without the landlords permission and that they can withhold the new keys from the landlord?

franklee

prudryden wrote:

Having a key and misusing that trust are two different discussions. You are misapplying the information I posted to a different issue;.;)

Not at all. If the landlord misuses the trust of having a key then it is entirely reasonable for the tenant to change the locks and withhold the new key.

prudryden

Frank -
There was never any intention to say that these ladies don't have a reason to change their locks. Of course they do. That is why I put the source of my info (which is rare on these forums). There are exceptions to the general rule, which clearly applies to these ladies. If it is an exception, then that proves the rule.

My response was because of the link in one of the posts referring to Scottish practices that gave the impression a tenant could change locks at any time and the implication that it was not a breach of contract and had nothing to do with the Landlord. It is misleading to the good tenants that frequent these forums. That was all I meant.

Kaminari_2

A LL has every right to have a key to the property they own, however in the Tenancy Agreement it will state "Quiet Enjoyment". This means the LL has no legal right to enter without giving (i think) at least 24 hours written notice to the tenant and the tenant can still refuse that if they don't want to LL around. Unless it was a serious emergency the LL would have have to get a court order to legally access the property. This is irrespective if they have keys or not. Just because they have keys does not mean they have legal right to enter the property.

prudryden

(1) The ladies should have someone definitely put a chain or inside lock on the door as a first step, If there isn't one already.

(2) They need to list all witnesses to the intrustions.

(3) File as many complaints and document these complaints to as many official sources as one can find. Important to document the responses as well. This would include any tenant organizations, disabled help org., OFT, police. Even if they are unable to help, the docs would tell the judge that you tried to mitiagate the problem.

(4) Inform the LL that the ladies find it frightening that he comes around unannounced and document.

(5) The reason for doing this is that the LL, if he smells trouble, will issue a quit notice, especially if you change the locks and don't give him a key. But you will be well ready to convince a judge that changing the locks was a necessity, not a whim.

Rick62

I can see no reason whatsoever that the LL (or his agent) 'needs' to have a key to the property. That to my mind is contrary to the legal principle of 'quiet enjoyment'. Prudrydens argument that the LL needs keys to meet his maintenance obligations is facile, the LL can make an appointment with the tenant like any other maintenance inspector.

It would be interesting if this went to the European court, in my mind it is a breach of basic human rights that someone else should or must have a key to the house that you occupy.