MSE News: Orange to raise monthly mobile costs

billwah

can anyone else smell that?

thischris1991

GRINTS1981 wrote: »

Hi, I have just had an email from Orange and here is part of the email

"We are obliged, as are all UK operators, to abide by condition 9.6 of the OfCOM/EU Framework for EU Regulation.
Condition 9.6 sets out what we must do if a change is of material detriment to a customer. We must provide 30 days notice and allow customers to terminate their contracts without paying a termination fee.
When changes are not of material detriment, we need to provide 30 days notice (as stated in our terms), but the customer doesn't have the right to terminate their contract without paying a termination fee"
So Orange are saying that they are obliged by 9.6. They have said that i can not cancel due to this not being "material detriment"

Standard email I had same other day so I passed it higher up.

Blue_nexus

Hi Folks,

Its my first post so be gentle. I've read through ever one of the 700+ posts here and like many of you I am annoyed by the orange price rise. I have noted a few posts that sited this may be an unfair contract term, so I done a little reading and came across unfair contract terms on the OFT website. (oft311.pdf)

Group 12 deals with Price variation clauses -

Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they
have the object or effect of:
(l) providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of
delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to
increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the
corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too
high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was
concluded.

12.1 The OFT's objections to variation clauses generally are set out under Group
10. If a contract is to be considered balanced, each party should be sure of
getting what they were promised in exchange for providing the
'consideration' they agreed to provide. A clause allowing the supplier to
increase the price – varying the most important of all of the consumer's
contractual obligations – has clear potential for unfairness.

12.2 Any purely discretionary right to set or vary a price after the consumer has
become bound to pay is obviously objectionable. That applies particularly to
terms allowing the supplier to charge a price on delivery of goods that is
not what was quoted to the consumer when the order was placed. It also
applies to rights to increase payments under continuing contracts where
consumers are 'captive' – that is, they have no penalty-free right to cancel.

12.3 A price variation clause is not necessarily fair just because is not
discretionary – for example, a right to increase prices to cover increased
costs experienced by the supplier. Suppliers are much better able to
anticipate and control changes in their own costs than consumers can
possibly be. In any case, such a clause is particularly open to abuse,
because consumers can have no reasonable certainty that the increases imposed on them actually match net cost increases.

12.4 A degree of flexibility in pricing may be achieved fairly in the following
ways.

• Where the level and timing of any price increases are specified (within
narrow limits if not precisely) they effectively form part of the agreed
price. As such they are acceptable, provided the details are clearly and
adequately drawn to the consumer's attention.

• Terms which permit increases linked to a relevant published price index
such as the RPI are likely to be acceptable, as paragraph 2 of Schedule
2 to the Regulations indicates, subject to the same proviso.

• Any kind of variation clause may in principle be fair if consumers are
free to escape its effects by ending the contract. To be genuinely free
to cancel, they must not be left worse off for having entered the
contract, whether by experiencing financial loss (for example, forfeiture
of a prepayment) or serious inconvenience, or any other adverse
consequences.

12.1 through to 12.3 would seem to argue that any price rise can be deemed as unfair. however 12.4 seems to state that a price rise linked to RPI is allowed ....

I am not in any way a legal mind and I'm struggling to understand this.

Like many of you I have phoned OFCOM and they have indicated that I am within my right to cancel. Orange take a different stance.

I am appalled at the way in which orange have communicated this price rise. To my mind a text is not acceptable, and the nature of this increase, legal or not is simply immoral. I for one will never be an orange customer again on point of principle, not just about the rise, but on the poor reception and poor training and attitude of the call center staff.

I would welcome your opinions on the OFT fair terms, if I can't fully understand legal arguments then I can't really fight my corner.

JDC14

soolin wrote: »

I'd already decided to leave when my contract was up and this has just made that decision for me.

Also as I have a large 'loyalty' discount I wouldn't be surprised if the increase is based on the actual tariff, rather than the one I pay after discount.

I spoke to them on the phone and the guy I spoke with had absolutely no idea about it, but said it is likely it would be on the actual tariff exclusive of the discount.

slenderkitten wrote: »

my question if inflation lowers would they then lower this increase?

Of course not, I asked this also. The funny thing he said to me was that our bills cover the cost of their costs including the handset so I asked how they made profit and he wasn't sure. Absolute moron.

I also caught him out when they say on that website people who got contracts since September would've had the price hike incorporated already - yet they had the latest version of my phone (BB Bold) on the same deal, at the same price. I asked if that would go up and he said it already had - then he offered me that as an upgrade, pillock.

Will be going elsewhere as Orange are offering me next to nothing on the upgrade, even saying iPhone 4 isn't available on upgrade at all. I'll go through Phones4u who are offering the best deal (unfortunately with Orange atm.) but it's cheaper than what they offered me on upgrade.

EliseRoseann

Daft_Punk wrote: »

Is it a surprise to you that they operate as a business?

Can you tell me any other companies that don't and any that really want to protect their customers over and above making a profit?

Banks? no
Gas and Electric? no
Anyone???.... no

Yes of course I know they operate as a business; a key aspect of operating as a business is good PR. Are you calling this good PR? As legal and small as the increase is, it is not encouraging customers to return. This isn't a point to be argued, it's a fact.

badaz52

So effectively what Orange are doing is just "exploiting" a loophole in our contracts to get more money? but we are not allowed the same right to exploit a loophole in their legislation and ofcom's?

Complete jokers the businesses in this country, maximum profits all the time followed by extortion and bad customer service.

I'm glad so many people have taken the time to complain, the sooner the retail index clause in their T&C's is noted the sooner they can be exposed as con artists.

Inflation is 5.4%, if they REALLY needed to increase prices because of this they would be putting them up by 5.4% not by 4.34% as suggested, trying to make out they are doing you a favour and as such they don't have to let you out of your contract? what a complete con.

This increase is of material detriment to EVERYONE who earns over £21,000 (or whatever the threshold the government has set) pay has been frozen, inflation continues to increase but those with frozen pay will not see any increase regardless of inflation, eventually we will be priced out of everything.

Stop the rot..

billwah

Right, just had my call-back from Orange........

The guy went through their terms and conditions, but also was polite enough to listen to my utterings ref: Ofcom's General Conditions (9.6).
He said they weren't uk law, merely guidance.

I kept composed and calm and kept stating I was unhappy about how the price increase had been put out there, especially as I regularly go away with work for extended periods of time (HM Forces). Theoretically there will be guys away now who won't find out about the rise until it happens.

Anyway, he said he couldn't decrease my tarriff without switching to a lower plan (not an option for me), and thhtat he couldn't compensate me for an amount that would cover the increase.
HOWEVER! He could give me an extra 10% loyalty bonus (takes me upto 25%) that I would be entilted to as a member of HM Forces, but normally when starting or upgrading contract. This he put on my account straight away, so my remaining months after the increase will be £27.98 instead of £35.75 at present.

I'm quite proud of myself to be honest, and glad i didn't just wade in there shouting and swearing.

Play nice, get rewarded. After all, this guy said he had 30 call-backs to do today, all for the same reason. Mine was probably the first time the person on the other end of the phone was nice to him.

Draw your own conclusions.......
:T

justtheticket

Well i got my standard looking reply from the letter i sent, i
i used the letter that Mhadf had posted up on the thread,

heres my reply

Case Reference: XXXXXXX
Account Number: XXXXXXXX
Please respond to [EMAIL="executive.office@orange.co.uk"]executive.office@orange.co.uk[/EMAIL]
Dear Mr Smith,
Thank you for your recent email received in relation to the Price Increase.
As you probably know, inflation is at a 20 year high, which is having a significant impact on businesses and households alike.
Unfortunately, we've had to re-evaluate our prices and are sorry to say that there will be a 4.34% increase in our monthly plan prices. This is lower than the Retail Price Index measure of inflation, which currently stands at 5.4%. Out of plan charges, such as calls, texts and data will not be changing. Our Pay Monthly terms and conditions allow us to increase charges by up to the RPI figure in any 12 month period. Due to this, I am unable to disconnect your account free of charge.
We understand that a price rise is never good news but we would like to assure you that you always get great value and benefits from Orange. For more about this, visit orange.co.uk/more for details.
For our terms and conditions please visit orange.co.uk/mobileterms
Kind regards

Jaime Peart
Executive Office

need to plan next move

billwah

Do you actually want to leave to go elsewhere? Or are you looking to get out of paying for an expensive phone?

I am quite happy with their service, so the extra discount i managed to get suited me fine....

Just asking

justtheticket

billwah wrote: »

Do you actually want to leave to go elsewhere? Or are you looking to get out of paying for an expensive phone?

I am quite happy with their service, so the extra discount i managed to get suited me fine....

Just asking

Yes i do want to leave and go else where,
as its been posted previously why should they get away with this i started a 24m contract on 23rd July 2011 the contract i took out was the maximum i could afford to pay each month, as a long term customer (10 years or so) i had to pay more for my contract than a new customer giving me less mins and txts and data as i previously had, Customer Loyalty ????????

hey ho i took the contract but no way did i wish to or want to expect to pay more for the same service as i already had, yes orange may have increasing bills to pay so they hit the customers for it, but i know for sure i wont get a wage increase to cover it,

this so called Great Britain has all of us living in fear to speak up and be heard, we are all getting royally bent over with our trousers around our ankles

why should we all just shrug this off and accept it