ESA medical-any truth in this?

martin57

Hi there,

One of our local mp's (mla in N ireland) has said that at atos esa medical's questions are fired in quick succession at the claimant so as to catch out any inconsistancies or crontradictions on the claimant's account of their illiness.

Is there any truth in this and what would happen if a person was to have a panic attack at a medical and wasn't able to keep up to pace with the rate of the questions asked?

thanks for any replies.

martin57

rogerblack

It's both true and false.
The training manual certainly does not say 'fire questions at high speed to catch out claimants'.
But, the design of the assessment, to some degree the software suggesting questions, and the limited time that it has to be done in can lead to multiple, seemingly unrelated questions asked in sequence.

They should - and must - always give time to answer the questions fully.

shackalak

I had a panic attack in the middle of my assessment (in fact, I was in a right state) so it does happen. I've got to say, the lady was really lovely and didn't rapidly fire the questions at me. She gave me plenty time to answer the questions. She also needed the time to type in my answers.

They do tend to ask the same questions in different ways but I wouldn't say they do them quickly to catch you out.

nannytone_2

I had a really good medical.
yes tere were lots of questions, but i was told to interrupt if any information that i thought was relebant, sprung to mind. i was encouraged to ask the assessor questions, in order that i could make my case as clear as possible.

i have nothing negative to say about the medical process ... but then again ... i passed!

Atos_Healthcare_representative

Hello,
I would like to reassure you that we would never intend to put a customer under stress or pressure by the use of “quick fire” questions.

Our healthcare professionals come from a range of clinical backgrounds with years of experience of dealing with people who may be anxious. This is also an area that is reinforced in our training as we believe it is important for our customers to feel at ease so they can best explain how their illness or condition affects them.

The healthcare professional does need to cover a range of questions with you to ensure the assessment is appropriate to your condition or illness They will listen to you and will give you time to answer. You will also find that they will be referring to a computer and typing at times whilst you are talking. Please don’t be put off by this, they are simply recording the notes of the assessment and using a specially developed medical application that ensures they have captured information in every relevant area.

If you feel very anxious at any point, please do tell the healthcare professional.

tatonette

Atos_Healthcare_company_representative wrote: »

Hello,
I would like to reassure you that we would never intend to put a customer under stress or pressure by the use of “quick fire” questions.

Our healthcare professionals come from a range of clinical backgrounds with years of experience of dealing with people who may be anxious. This is also an area that is reinforced in our training as we believe it is important for our customers to feel at ease so they can best explain how their illness or condition affects them.

The healthcare professional does need to cover a range of questions with you to ensure the assessment is appropriate to your condition or illness They will listen to you and will give you time to answer. You will also find that they will be referring to a computer and typing at times whilst you are talking. Please don’t be put off by this, they are simply recording the notes of the assessment and using a specially developed medical application that ensures they have captured information in every relevant area.

If you feel very anxious at any point, please do tell the healthcare professional.

I feel that those comments which have been underlined are so far from the truth that it is laughable!

I went with my sister for an ESA medical.
1. Any explanation offered was cut short and she was told to answer yes or no instead!
2. There was little for the assessor to listen to. My sister either said YES, NO or made no comment as there wasn't a clear yes/no answer available.
3. On her behalf I told the assessor that she was distressed, but I was ignored. My sister started to cry yet the examination continued. I insisted again and was warned that if the assessment was stopped, it would go against her. The assessment continued for another 15 mins and I had to take her out absolutely disraught.

So please, don't quote what you should do, be honest and tell it as it really is!

dave030445

martin57 wrote: »

Hi there,

One of our local mp's (mla in N ireland) has said that at atos esa medical's questions are fired in quick succession at the claimant so as to catch out any inconsistancies or crontradictions on the claimant's account of their illiness.

Is there any truth in this and what would happen if a person was to have a panic attack at a medical and wasn't able to keep up to pace with the rate of the questions asked?

thanks for any replies.

martin57

Just slow the medical down to your own speed they can only ask the question in quick succession but you dont have to answer them at that speed.

rogerblack

It varies.
Have you actually complained officially against the assessment?

I can only say that my assessment was as good as it could have been, given the inherent limits of the legislation, and the way it was conducted.

The defects in my case were largely due to systematic problems caused by the DWP and government.
I may, of course have a different experience next time round (sent off ESA50 closing on three months ago - and nothing as of yet)

Muttleythefrog

Atos_Healthcare_company_representative wrote: »

Hello,
I would like to reassure you that we would never intend to put a customer under stress or pressure by the use of “quick fire” questions.

Our healthcare professionals come from a range of clinical backgrounds with years of experience of dealing with people who may be anxious. This is also an area that is reinforced in our training as we believe it is important for our customers to feel at ease so they can best explain how their illness or condition affects them.

The healthcare professional does need to cover a range of questions with you to ensure the assessment is appropriate to your condition or illness They will listen to you and will give you time to answer. You will also find that they will be referring to a computer and typing at times whilst you are talking. Please don’t be put off by this, they are simply recording the notes of the assessment and using a specially developed medical application that ensures they have captured information in every relevant area.

If you feel very anxious at any point, please do tell the healthcare professional.

This post is so laughable in its relevance to the actual reality of the medical that it beggars belief the poster could retain control of the keyboard when pasting it. I am reluctant to even go into further detail because it is patently obvious you have no intention of engaging with the reality faced by 'customers'. There is a world of difference between what a PR operative will say should happen and what the end customer actually finds does happen. I seriously question whether you have ever been near one of these medical assessments let alone a medical assessment centre judging from your posting - hiding behind ignorance is no defence to propaganda.

You repeatedly breach the rules of this site and now you try to insult the intelligence of disabled people and the integrity of their carers or reps. I am starting to get extremely agitated. Why was my medical not carried out by the HCP you claimed would carry it out. Why did the HCP in my medical admit that they had not read my completed ESA50 form they had in front of them. Why are there grossly incorrect 'facts' in my medical report that have no apparent source. Why does my medical report contain a prognosis that the HCPs involved in my care say is laughable or baseless. Will you answer any of these questions or should I just jump off a bridge and save your company some aggravation. In fact you've angered me so much that this month I will be filing an official complaint to ATOS HC and the DWP regarding the events of my medical. Time is up.

To the Op... in my medical 3 well established techniques were used in questionning. Good cop/bad cop was evident depending upon which seemed most successful in getting 'suitable' responses from me. So do not be surprised if the HCP has dramatic shifts in apparent approach or personality during the assessment. There was use at times of rapid firing of questions - this seemed to be a tactic to prevent me explaining fully my problems in relation to question asked (or to prevent exhibition of some symptoms of mental illness like rumination)...i.e. my answers were interrupted probably due to not conforming to standard responses suited to the HCP on the LiMA software. Medicals will however vary quite dramatically - that is one thing we can say for sure... experiences vary widely... and unfortunately so do the reports in relation to the claimant's reality.

Yours, a claimant of ESA (currently in Support Group)

NASA_2

martin57 wrote: »

Hi there,

One of our local mp's (mla in N ireland) has said that at atos esa medical's questions are fired in quick succession at the claimant so as to catch out any inconsistancies or crontradictions on the claimant's account of their illiness.

Is there any truth in this and what would happen if a person was to have a panic attack at a medical and wasn't able to keep up to pace with the rate of the questions asked?

thanks for any replies.

martin57

Mickey Brady by any chance?

cit_k

Lets look at previously submitted evidence from many sources, about ATOS assessments.

Firstly some old evidence, just to show that problems are not a new thing by any stretch of the imagination...

A client found the doctor extremely rude and ignorant.
During the examination the doctor started to lecture the client
on family planning, and also made her go into the bedroom and strip down to her underwear.
The client felt extremely humiliated by the doctor.

A CAB client had a history of anxiety and panic disorder and depression.
He had problems looking after himself – such as not eating if he is alone – and could not cope with official or medical situations.
He also had a back problem.

The decision maker asked the EMP to seek more detail about his inability to
prepare a main meal. Despite this, the EMP did not directly address these
questions, or explore the client’s mental health problems at all, focusing rather
on his back problems.

It wasn’t until after the examination that the client realised that the questions
hadn’t all been about his back, but he’d answered them as if they were, with no
reference to his mental health problems.

The client felt very pressurised by the lack of flexibility in the questioning and
was not very coherent in his answers.

His claim was turned down, as was a request for reconsideration and the
family are struggling to pay bills.

The stress of applying for benefit and the subsequent appeal has led to a
worsening of his mental health, and he feels the whole process has put him
back months.
He now rarely feels able to leave the house, and cannot continue with the therapeutic work he was undertaking.

A man was appealing against a decision to stop benefits after a PCA.
He was kept waiting an hour and 20 minutes, before being told he should go home.

He insisted he should be seen.

The EMP spent just 15 minutes with him, and made little eye contact, concentrating instead on his computer.

When the client pointed out a mistake on the form, he was told to be quiet.

A woman had been so intimidated by an EMP that she delayed three years before claiming help with mobility needs.
The bureau estimated that the client had lost out on a large amount of benefit.

A client who had been in receipt of IB for three years after a mental breakdown, failed a PCA with nine points.
The doctor was aggressive in tone and intimidating, demanding
yes/no answers, and did not allow the client to explain their condition.

A Somali torture victim with mental health problems was very dissatisfied with her medical examination.
She felt that the doctor had not paid proper attention to her mental illness.
She felt rushed, and thought the doctor was dismissive.
The process of appeal is exacerbating her condition.

A client with severe mental health problems scored zero points in a medical.
The client felt that the doctor took very little information and spent
very little time on the assessment.
As a result of this decision, the client’s mental health deteriorated significantly.

A client who is a lone mother with multiple physical and mental health problems failed her PCA, yet she had been on incapacity benefits for the past six years.

The examination was very rushed.

The client also reported that the doctor told her not to reveal problems about her mental illness as this would put her children at risk of being removed by social services.

A client suffering from serious mental health problems reported that their PCA took only five minutes.
The form officially recorded the length of examination as 12 minutes, yet according to the client the doctor left the room during the examination.

The doctor asked only closed questions, and produced an inaccurate and inadequate report.
As a result of the report, the client’s mental condition deteriorated
rapidly, putting him in a high suicide risk category.

His IB was reinstated three days later.

A client with multiple severe health problems received a home visit for his medical assessment.
The visit lasted about 45 minutes during which the doctor only asked only a few questions and appeared to be in a rush.

The client attempted to provide additional information about his condition yet was told that it was unnecessary.

At the end of the examination the doctor asked the client to sign the report form, the client said he needed his glasses in order to
read the form first, yet the doctor encouraged the client just to sign
without them. The client had high rate care DLA reduced to middle rate care.

A CAB client was upset when she was not allowed to sit in on her son’s medical assessment.
He had learning disabilities and a mental age of 10-12 years.
DLA was reduced and carer’s allowance refused, although she is his full time carer. The client was forced to sign on as unemployed, even though she could not work.

and numerous more examples like the above, all found in a offical CAB report from 2006...


Lets look at evidence submitted to parliament this year, have things improved??

1.3 Our member agencies see clients' everyday who are clearly not fit for work being assessed as such due to poor quality WCA reports. Common causes of this include (but are not limited to):
— Insufficient medical knowledge of specific conditions on the part of examining medical professionals.
— Inappropriate interviewing techniques by examining medical professionals.
— Failure to accurately record statements made by claimants.
— Leading questions, and suggested answers, by the examining medical professionals.
— Failure to deal appropriately with clients with mental health issues.

source

If I had the energy, I could make this post several pages long, there is just soooo much evidence of problems, its amazing...