Looking to change to BT Broadband - are they any good?

joe134

TanDiy wrote: »

Thank you everybody so much for taking the trouble to write. I have always been with BT for my telephone and Virgin for the broadband. I am very close to the exchange and have always been close to 8Mb download on ADSL - the only reason I am changing is because Virgin are demanding another £14 a month to upgrade my download speed (even though they have upgraded my upload to 1Mb) and really did not care about me leaving when they realised I was not going to sign up to their phone service as well. I am hoping I will get close to the 17Mb - 19Mb that BT suggest if I move to ADSL2+. (although not sure if this will make difference over the 8Mb?). BT have offered their unlimited broadband and unlimited calls at a fair discount from the usual price but I am concerned about the 18month contract and the many bad reports - have to give this some more thought - many thanks again.

Hi, I live about 0.5 miles from my exchange, and like you phoned BT yesterday for price to change from aol...I know my line is capable of 6-8+mbs, by thier own line checker, and the techie guys on here.getting 0.5-4max, usually sub 1.5mbs; However, BT said I would get Max 4mbs, even that,s a dream for me if it,s constant;;;17mbs on yours seems an awful lot from bt, without fttc;;;?my exchange has the lot;

kwikbreaks

iniltous wrote: »

technically there is no reason why a LLU provider will give better/faster service than BT if BT offer the same technology in that exchange (after any line management period has elapsed)

There are three good reasons why LLU is usually a better option providing a good LLU provider is chosen.

The BTWholesale connections are subject to continuous line management which at the slightest hiccup will reduce the actual delivered speed instantly but can take days to restore it. Given enough hiccups it will increase the target noise margin which can take weeks to recover. LLU providers don't use any continual line management preferring to make a manual adjustment on the very small proportion of problem lines which cannot be sorted out by optimising internal wiring or fault fixing on the line itself.

The BTw line profiling operates in rather large steps which can result in maximum speeds delivered being up to 0.5Mbps less than an LLU provider would deliver. At very low speeds this step is reduced to 0.25Mbps but even that is significant on a line delivering 2Mbps or less.

Because of the eye watering prices BTw charge the ISPs for the equipment that terminates the customer connection at the ISP there is an economic pressure to cram more customers on than an LLU provider needs to. In general a Be or Sky customer will see less peak period slowdown than any comparably priced BTw based ISP can deliver.

On the topic of reliability - most ADSL is very reliable indeed and only a small proportion of customers will experience any outages at all - as often as not such problems will be down to the actual line itself which will be common to all ISPs.

home_alone

I have been with BT for just over 1 year can not fault them np problems at all, I left tiscali/talk/talk to go to BT so I know all about problems. I even got my original deal cheaper without asking about 4 months ago, I pay £12.70 for anytime calls and 10mg broadband and cheap line rental saver.

TanDiy

Quick Update and thanks for all the info. There are no fibre suppliers where we are so we have been limited to ADSL with Virgin. The router has always shown connection at 8Mb and we have always had very good speed (slows during the evening). The exchange was recently updated to 21CN and our neighbour with BT jumped to speed of around 17-19Mb on their router. Our upload speed went up to over 1Mb but our download speed stayed at 8Mb. We spoke to Virgin who wanted another £14 (on top of the £18) per month to remove the 8Mb cap. Anyway, we have now switched to BT unlimited broadband and calls which all goes live next Monday - they are quoting download speeds of 17Mb-19.5Mb which I think is probably about right as our neighbour with them has jumped to 17Mb since the exchange upgrade. I will update the forum in a week or so when I can judge the BT service. Thanks again for all the info and advice.

iniltous

kwikbreaks wrote: »

There are three good reasons why LLU is usually a better option providing a good LLU provider is chosen.

The BTWholesale connections are subject to continuous line management which at the slightest hiccup will reduce the actual delivered speed instantly but can take days to restore it. Given enough hiccups it will increase the target noise margin which can take weeks to recover. LLU providers don't use any continual line management preferring to make a manual adjustment on the very small proportion of problem lines which cannot be sorted out by optimising internal wiring or fault fixing on the line itself.

So given the vasy majority of 'lines' are stable (the mean time to a fault is 9 years and falling ) most people would receive the same service on a LLU line as a BTw one, plus if the line developed a problem but was tweeked by a LLU provider, where as DLM on the BTw may reduce speed to give a stable performance the LLU line may be unstable and cause problems...swings and roundabouts,

The BTw line profiling operates in rather large steps which can result in maximum speeds delivered being up to 0.5Mbps less than an LLU provider would deliver. At very low speeds this step is reduced to 0.25Mbps but even that is significant on a line delivering 2Mbps or less.
LLU operators dont even claim that there kit is 'faster' if it were I'm sure it would be in their advertising..

Because of the eye watering prices BTw charge the ISPs for the equipment that terminates the customer connection at the ISP there is an economic pressure to cram more customers on than an LLU provider needs to. In general a Be or Sky customer will see less peak period slowdown than any comparably priced BTw based ISP can deliver.
BTw prices are regulated by OFCOM and BT can only charge what the regulator allows them to, some LLU providers can cross subsidise one service by in effect charging more than they need to for another, something BT is not allowed to...

On the topic of reliability - most ADSL is very reliable indeed and only a small proportion of customers will experience any outages at all - as often as not such problems will be down to the actual line itself which will be common to all ISPs.

I think to imply that BT's kit is inferior is when its probably manufactured by the same companys to the same technical spec as the LLU operators kit is mis-leading, if the sepc were different you would need routers built to different specs for BT and LLU ADSL but the routers are the same..and given that DLM has a 'cost' you would imagine BT see a benefit in having it , otherwise they would switch it off, or not install it on new kit and , and save the ££ its costs to install and run

baby_frogmella

TanDiy wrote: »

Only LLU is TalkTalk and I am not going to use them. Thanks

Actually going direct with TalkTalk LLU isn't bad at all provided you stick with their forum support (very good) and don't use P2P which TalkTalk throttle. I've been on TalkTalk LLU for 14 months now, I get line speeds 24/7 (18 meg), pings of less than 25 ms (great for gaming) and HD movies on my Boxee Box load without stuttering. I would rather pour bleach in my eyes than go back to a BTw based isp again!

If you are 110% set on avoiding Talktalk (perfectly understandable given their shocking phone support), then consider going via a Talktalk LLU reseller such as Vivaciti - slightly more expensive but you're guaranteed far superior support and you can even keep your BT line.
http://vivaciti.net/forum/showthread.php?1613-Partial-LLU-(SMPF)-on-any-Opal-exchange
https://www.vivaciti.net

kwikbreaks

iniltous wrote: »

I think to imply that BT's kit is inferior is when its probably manufactured by the same companys to the same technical spec as the LLU operators kit is mis-leading, if the sepc were different you would need routers built to different specs for BT and LLU ADSL but the routers are the same..and given that DLM has a 'cost' you would imagine BT see a benefit in having it , otherwise they would switch it off, or not install it on new kit and , and save the ££ its costs to install and run

I am not commenting on BT kit at all. I am commenting on their DLM and IP profiling systems which LLU operators do not use. BT use it for the simple reason that their systems need it. LLU operators systems do not need it. They have the problems associated with them which I've noted. This is all well known - ask on any forum concerned primarily with ADSL.

The other comment is on the BTw pricing which LLU operators avoid and why they can offer far better products £ for £ than anything based on BTw products.

daleski75

I have BT Total Broadband package with BT Vision and cannot fault it get a rock solid 19mbit from my line and apart from some niggly issues with the hub at the start that was it.

TanDiy

Hi - being that I started this thread I thought I would update it with the final outcome. Took the plunge and switched to BT who offered me a good deal on unlimted broadband and calls. Ordered online last Friday week and switched over yesterday. So my experience so far...first class service - emails telling me exactly what was going on - router delivered first thing yesterday morning (although I am using own netgear). Yesterday morning at around 8am I noticed the internet had stopped working. Logged in to router and noticed download speed gone up to 17153 (by the evening it was 17785) and upload gone up to 1195. Changed the logon details from Virgin to BT and wow - everything up and running. To be honest I did not think the speed would make a lot of difference but it does. Feels like it is a lot faster BUT the one big difference is that it was still fully usable in the evening (Virgin used to slow down to the level where it was unusable). So cannot fault BT so far - just hope the speed holds up and tech support is ok if I ever need it. Thanks again for all the info and advice on the forum