I keep geeting charged by webbilling.com

foursixseven

That was directed towards fruit and nut case ^

@zx81 not quite sure what you mean but if that was an attempt at a joke i would expect better ie "you're in a sticky situation"...

Neworder64

On checking a savings account statement, I identified 3 payments by Direct Debit being taken from my account over a 6 week period, each one for £8.99.
Bering in Mind, I use this account purely for savings, I was shocked and concerned that anyone could set up a direct debit to withdraw funds.
Thankfully, the bank has refunded me, but reading the posts related to this company, I am now expecting letters or e-mails asking for payment.
It appears (judging by previous posts), that this company are some how related to Adult sites - something I have not and would not ever use and above all, would NEVER submit card details to a company of this nature anyway!
So, again, I would like to stress, that this acccount is used for savings only and not for paying for items purchased online or othewise.
My advice - check your statements carefully! I will keep you posted with any further updates I have with this matter.

gb12345

Neworder64 wrote: »

Thankfully, the bank has refunded me, but reading the posts related to this company, I am now expecting letters or e-mails asking for payment.

If you get them then take a look in the debtfreewannabee forum for a "prove it" letter to get them to prove that you actually owe them money.

evaluatebilling

I briefly signed up to adultfriendfinder ("AFF") (yes, I realised within 1 week that nice people do not join this. I should have known anyhow, but there you are). The debt payment was not processed correctly (no fault of AFF) and webbilling.com contacted me. I have published some details, below, but here are a few pertinent facts and personal views/ conclusions:

1. When I emailed AFF to cancel membership, they asked for my bank account number and details of WHICH WEB SITE I signed up to (I infer/ guess from this that the organisation that deals with AFF also manages other web sites. This might explain how some people found multiple billings)
2. The AFF people I communicated with were agreeable in their emails; not aggressive, dismissive or rude. However, they do not appear to have done anything to alleviate my situation. I infer from this that the veneer or politeness and customer attention is just a veneer. This may have some of you thinking 'are you surprised', but may I point out that the behaviour of AFF and many/ most? web sites is materially different from physical retailers. If you read the T&C of websites, even 'respectable' and large ones such as dating site prefernottonameit.com, they restrict consumer rights in a way that no high street retailer would, I believe. My perception therefore is that AFF talked customer service but failed to deliver (at least for me, in this specific situation)
3. Webbilling.com is simply a servicer of bills/ debts. They do not appear 'scams'. You should not expect a service, as their customer appears to be the retailer (here AFF), not you; and, the people just read from a screen, so they are automatons and not incentivised to help you. If you are being incorrectly billed, I think it is more likely to be the end customers of webbilling that INSTRUCT webbilling (this is my guess only, as I can not find hard evidence) i.e. I do not think webbilling create bills, just process them.
4. I paid my debt, though I believe that I did not owe one (see below). This was for simplicity and ease. I am not sure whether the error was webbilling.com or their customer AFF (or me). In practice, I have modest confidence in either organisation - I do not accuse either of dishonesty, but simply a lack of precision, communication and ultimately professionalism.
5. UK laws should/ do offer protection, but in practice this is nigh on impossible to rely on. You may have a Romanian investor in a web site registered in the USA, with employees in USA, UK and Europe; with a debt processor in Netherlands, but a separate office in Switzerland; and a customer in the UK!

NOTE that these are my personal opinions only. In my details, below, I have been selective in what I have printed and I have modified certain details. This is for brevity and privacy, such that I do not believe they present a warped or inaccurate view on my interaction - but please consider that this could still be a risk (I am keen not to make bold claims that people rely upon, so I would like to emphasise that you can not rely on what I write here at factual, just opinion).

Below, I have summarised my interaction with AFF and webbilling.com. I have changed a couple of details and removed some details, for privacy, but not, I think, in a way that materially changes the nature of the interaction (said that twice, to be clear).

My overall finding is that I was playing tennis with webbilling.com and AFF; with webbilling.com playing the simple automaton doing what they are told and AFF claiming to be super friendly and helpful, but not apparently taking any action that stopped webbilling chasing for the debt. My overall personal view is to avoid AFF because they are pedalling something not very nice; if you sign up to them or any regular dating site, DO read T&C and try every way possible to avoid leaving an unlimited financial liability (credit card behind the bar) with an organisation in a foreign country that does not have much/ any 'stake' in the UK and is therefore not incentivised to operate in a manner that you would want them to.

Details (incomplete and only for brief perusal, not to be relied upon):

The final conclusion I came to was that I was banging my head against a wall, that neither organisation had addressed my concerns in a way that satisfied me; and, that this was my small penance for signing up to a web site of unclear respectability.

Timeline of Billing and Cancellation


1. 5th January 2014 (“Order Date”)
Subscription to adultfriendfinder.com starts (“AFF”)
Purchase is for “1 Month Gold membership” at GBPXXXX
Order ID: XXXX
IP Address: XXXX
Email Address: XXXX
Name on AFF is: XXXX

2. 6th January 2014 – email to AFF (“Switch Off of Auto Renewal”)
Email sent by me (XXXX) to AFF stating, in writing, that I wish to switch off the auto renewal of my account and to have my credit card frozen, such that no transaction can be made using the credit card with AFF (unless I write to AFF to reverse this).

AFF acknowledged this email and agreed to it.

Note: the implication of this is that I have 1 contract with AFF, for 1 month’s service, with no possibility of any future payment beyond that single contract for 1 month.

3. 14th January 2014 – email to AFF (“Cancellation of Membership)
Email sent by me (XXXX) to AFF requesting that my membership be cancelled and that I be reimbursed in full. I requested this as a legal right under “The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013”.

4. 17th January 2014 – email from AFF to me (XXXX) in response to my email of 14th January, re. “Cancellation of membership”, point 3 above

In the email from AFF, they state that no charge was processed on my account. Further, they state that if my bank statement shows otherwise (i.e. if a charge was made on my account), I should inform them and they will “be happy to adjust [my] account right away” (i.e. they will reimburse me for any charge on my account).

Note: It appears to me (just my opinion here) clear from this that AFF recognises that I have a right to cancel under UK Distance selling Regulations law, or that they choose to allow me to cancel because they are nice people. Either way, they state that no charge has been made on my account, no charge will be made on my account and, should any charge be made on my account, they will reimburse me for this.

5. 17th January 2014 – email from me (XXXX) to AFF in response to their acknowledgement of cancelling my account and reimbursing me of payment, point 4 above

I acknowledge that no payment has been taken from my account and thank AFF.

Note: My account is then closed by AFF and I have no access to it.

6. 18th January 2014 – email from dunningletter@webbilling.com to me (XXXX) stating that I owe them GBPXXXX (“First Request for Payment by Webbilling.com”)

Details provided by webbilling.com
Merchant/Principal : Friendf
For invoice number : ID XXXX
Amount of current claim : XXXX GBP
6th January 2014 (“Switch Off of Auto Renewal”)

Webbilling.com state that they tried to take money from my account, of GBPXXXX, for services relating to “FriendF” (i.e. adultfriendfinder.com/ AFF). They state that I owe them an additional charge as a result of this attempted charge being bounced (GBPXXXX “bank fees” and GBP XXXX “collection service fees”), totalling GBPXXXX.

Note: This email, from webbilling.com, requesting payment is still within the 14 day cancellation period set out by UK Distance Selling regulations (see point 4 above) and it is after AFF (webbilling.com’s client) has stated that my membership contract with them is cancelled, that no money has been taken from my account and that I owe no money to them (see point 4 above).

7. 19th January 2014 – email from me (XXXX) to AFF stating that, despite AFF closing my account, cancelling my membership, stating that no charge was made on my account and that they will reimburse me if any charge is subsequently made, I am still being asked for payment by webbilling.com

I remind AFF of their cancelling my membership refund of all money (points 4 and 5) and also of my rights under UK Distance Selling regulations (point 3). AFF respond to me by stating “We do apologize for the inconvenience, we will stop collection on your account”.

Note: This email from AFF supports their earlier email. They are stating that they will stop monetary collection from webbilling.com, in my opinion.

I responded to the email from AFF by replying “ Many thanks for that, Don. It appears that your pet German rotweiller is not aware of the cancellation of the account. I have no desire to avoid paying money that I owe, so if you think that I have misunderstood the situation, please do let me know. The amount may not be worth your time, but I am keen to be straight.”
AFF’s final reply was “Your satisfaction is our #1 priority. Thanks for being a member of our community. If there's anything more we can do for you, just ask. Our Customer Support team operates extra hours - so don't be bashful if you ever have any questions.”

Thank you,
Don V.
Adultfriendfinder Risk_Management_Direct_Debit Support
Note: There can be no mistake here, in my opinion. AFF understands that my account has already been closed, some time ago, that I owe nothing to them and that I am requesting that AFF clarify with webbilling.com that I owe no money to them, nor to AFF.

8. 22nd January 2014 – email from webbilling.com to me (XXXX) stating that they are only a technical service and that any disagreement regarding payment should be addressed to the original service provider, AFF (“Nature of Relationship”)

Further to my attempt to engage with webbilling.com, they replied to me stating that they “act only as a technical service provider to process payment”; that they are “unable to cancel the contract between you and adultfriendfinder.com” and “surely, the provider’s support will be glad to help you in this case”.

Note: I agree entirely.

AFF did help me. They did cancel the membership contract. They did acknowledge that no payment was owed by me to them and that, if any payment was incorrectly charged to my account, they would reimburse me (see points 4 and 5 above). It is only webbilling.com that appears, subsequent to this email from them, unwilling to accept their client’s cancellation of my membership and full refund. Again, this is just my opinion.

9. 24th January 2014 – email from webbilling.com to me (XXXX) stating that I still owe them money

Webbilling.com state to me that the email from AFF (point 7) “ just says that they stopped the collection on your account. It means that you have cancelled your membership with them. But the outstanding payment still has to be paid.”

Note: In this email, webbilling.com is ignoring their own status (point 8) as a technical service to their client, AFF, by pursuing me in contravention of what AFF has stated. They are ignoring the very clear statement by their client, AFF, to fully reimburse me (points 4 and 7). They are choosing to interpret their client’s written words in a manner that they are clearly not intended to mean. They fail to acknowledge their client cancelled my membership some time ago, that their client stated no money had been taken from my account, nor would be taken from my account (points 4, 5 and 7) and that this all took place before webbilling.com’s first email to me on 18th January (point 6). This is my interpretation only, not a statement of fact.

Further, webbilling.com makes no reference to my legal rights under UK Distance Selling regulations (point 3).

There is a single contract between me (XXXX) and AFF (points 1 and 2) and any subsequent emails must refer to this single contract. AFF has (I believe) clearly cancelled my membership and accepted that I owe nothing in relation to this membership. If webbilling.com wishes to challenge AFF on this, then webbilling.com should discuss the matter with AFF directly. As webbilling.com points out themselves, they are only a technical service provider for AFF (point 8), servicing AFF’s needs, as their client.

10. I send this summary of emails and implications as a way to help webbilling.com understand that no money is owed by me and that their client acknowledges this. This statement that no money is owed and that ‘collection of money will be stopped’ (point 7) refers to the one and only contract that exists; the one and only payment that was charged for, of GBPXXXX.


NOTE: I may have been incorrect in allocating blame to webbilling.com. If I view them as a very simple organisation, simply collecting on a debt, then it is for AFF to tell webbilling that no debt is owed by me. This uncertainty that I have highlights that THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF WEBBILLING vs AFF ARE MOST UNCLEAR. THIS LACK OF CLARITY REFLECTS THE WILD WEST NATURE OF MANY INTERNET TRANSACTIONS, NOT JUST WEBBILLING AND AFF, SUCH THAT I CAN NOT SAY WHETHER EITHER ORGANISATION IS NOTABLY POOR COMPARED TO PEERS; BETTER; OR SIMILAR. THE ONLY THING THAT I CAN SAY, WITH MODEST CONFIDENCE, IS THAT IF YOU OWE A DEBT AND ARE UNWILLING TO PURSUE THE MATTER IN A UK SMALL CLAIMS COURT, OR SIMILAR, THEN YOU WILL PROBABLY/ POSSIBLY NOT FIND ANYONE AT EITHER ORGANISATION WILLING TO TAKE SPECIFIC ACTIONS TO RESOLVE THE MATTER, EXCEPT BY YOU PAYING...SO NEXT TIME, GO FIND A NICE GIRL SOMEWHERE LOCALLY

The_Boss

On an unrelated note, how come the "thanks" button has been disabled for all posts except the previous one?

Fruit_and_Nut_Case

The_Boss wrote: »

On an unrelated note, how come the "thanks" button has been disabled for all posts except the previous one?

This is a zombie thread. I think the button may get disabled after a long time has passed.

The_Boss

Got it - makes sense

planteria

yes, take the advice above..

it's not my thing, but i can't understand why anyone would be paying anything for !!!!!!. there is loads of stuff available free, surely? and i would expect the systems are in place to make it difficult to cancel, as rmcc is finding.