Nursey nightmare advice please

princeofpounds

A reasonable payment isn't a defined term or something legal. I'm just trying to think of a practical way to pacify them so that this doesn't move legal too quickly. I'm sure other people will have things to say and ideas too, so don't treat my suggestions as the only way forward.

If you are confident of the amount you actually owe then I would suggest starting to pay right away, as you have been billed (if confusingly).

Burton64

Cheers ok. No I'm not confident of the amount I owe on a quick look at reams of paper there seems to be some discrepancies in that they've missed claiming the childcare vouchers some months, refunded voucher payments that should of been kept, attributed payments to my account that haven't come from my bank and charged for random extra sessions. So it's all a big mess that's gona take some time to get my head round. It will be in the region of what they are saying just not that exact amount but least be paying them reducing the amout and will have time to agree the exact amount when it's been worked out.

Thanks again for everyone's help

susancs

Burton64 wrote: »

Hi

Thanks a lot for your reply. I use the voucher system and the nursery has been receiving this payment. I accept that I was foolish in not watching my bank account in great detail but this account is only used for direct debits any extra money in this account is used to pay other bills etc which is why it's not built up. I have previously not had a problem when paying for my older child for the past 4 years and have received invoices and payments have gone out with no involvement from me which is why I assumed it had continued even with the invoices stpped arriving. Up until the invoices stopped I was in credit but didn't know how much and my monthly fees are always different due to changes in the number if days attended, which of my children attended and whether the older one was getting the gvt free place. I'd rather not have to take a loan out to pay off the debt but would prefer to make them regular payments until it's paid off is that not a plausible option. If it's passed to a debt collection agency what exactly happens? Or if they decide to pursue it thru the courts what's the process.

Thanx again for ur help

If the debt is under £5,000 it will probably go the small claims legal route, with details of this here:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_system/small_claims.htm
Sometimes Nurseries use a seperate company to deal with debt managment (who get a percentage of the recovered debt), so you may need to deal with them in relation to the debt and any court case if it is handed over to them. Baliffs are only sent in once a Court enforcement order is given and payment is not made or they may just contact employers to garnish wages.

I can understand you do not want to take a loan out to pay the debt, but personally I think it may be better as you will probably end up paying more than just the debt if they take it further as you may have extra court costs on top, plus have to add in the time (maybe off work unpaid) and stress of dealing with the court case. It is really 6/7 months childcare you must be due to pay (minus the childcare vouchers) as I assume you have been reserving the approx monthly Nursery fees in your bank account every month since you became aware there was a problem in June, so could you just pay them the lump sum you have for the months since June and make arrangments via a bank loan or credit card to pay them off the rest within the next month.

You also may have problems finding a new childcare provision (as they usually ask where the child has been before and contact the provision for development files) and have to take time off work to find a new place and settle your child in. The Nursery are under no obligation to accept small payments from you and as now they have withdrawn your child's place will probably want to recover the money in full as soon as possible. A County Court Judgment will affect your long term credit and may mean you may be rejected for a future loan, if you want to rent or buy property, order from catalogues or do interest free credit agreements etc. I assume you were happy with the Nursery provision as both your children went there, so it would be better for your child if they continued in an environment they felt secure and happy in.

How long approx would your repayment plan of money on top of fees take you to pay off the debt to the Nursery? Are they charging you a non payment of fees percentage on top as some child care provisions do or allowing you do so on an interest free basis?

FatVonD

OP, I sympathise with how you didn't notice as (pre online banking) it's exactly the sort of thing I'd have done. As a working mum you've enough to juggle doing what *you're* supposed to be doing without checking that other people are doing what they're supposed to be doing. If it were me I'd write a letter along the lines of:

Dear xxxxxxxxx,

I was disappointed to get your email excluding X from the nursery. As you know, I fully complied with the terms and conditions by setting up the direct debit (with the majority of my childcare fees being taken care of via my employer's voucher scheme) and my only failure was not to spot that the top-up payments weren't being taken at your end, something I understand has also happened previously to other parents (check?) using your nursery.

As you know I am more than happy to pay the amount owed (when it can be confirmed as the paperwork I have finally been issued, after a year of requesting my invoices, appears to contain some discrepancies) and have offered two very reasonable payment plans to clear the arrears (accrued through no fault of my own.) Both amounts offered were greater than would be granted as a result of a CCJ but both have been not only refused but met with threats of legal action, bailiffs (?) and now exclusion.

I feel that excluding X will be counter productive as I will then be unable to work and will therefore be unable to pay even the amounts I have offered. X and Y are happy at the nursery and I would rather not look for another but these threats are making me very uncomfortable over a matter that was an oversight on the part of your own accounts team so I am asking you to please reconsider my previous offers so that we can move forward in a way that is workable to us both.

Yours sincerely

whitewing

Is it definitely by direct debit (nursery controls this) that you should have been paying or by standing order (nursery would not be able to control this)? My daughter's nursery does not have the facility to claim direct debits.

Either way, you are both at fault, nursery should have picked it up a lot sooner but if direct debit rather than standing order then nursery has been particularly stupid.

I personally think that the nursery should allow you to pay by installments and it would be unfair for your arrears to be paid in monthly amounts larger than you would normally have been paying.(eg if normally pay £200 a month, you should be able to pay £200 a month, plus current fees). This is assuming that nursery haven't chased you for payments before. Also I think that the nursery is silly to withdraw your child. They should keep on top of current fees but maintain the place as that will keep you all in contact. Go in to them with a payment plan showing that you will meet costs going forward and pay regular amounts to clear arrears.

If you are forced to find a new place then you may have to revise your arrears schedule as presumably you would need to pay some fees up front for a deposit.

Horrible as dealing with these situations are, if you bite the bullet and see them in person (probably the last thing you feel like doing), you can sort it out. They are probably feeling really uncomfortable (and guilty) too, and are pushing you away because of that. I am convinced you can all have the outcome you want.

adamantine

the letter suggested by FatVonD is excellent. i did something similar but i told them that i would be paying £x per month and that was that basically.

they havent thought it through properly by excluding your child. excluding your child means you cannot work meaning you cannot earn meaning you cannot pay. i think they need this pointed out to them.

FatVonD

I'd also add a bit in the last paragraph along the lines of:

'...and I'm sure that, with the current shrinking jobs market and nobody sure that their job is safe from one month to the next, you don't want to lose a loyal customer or be left with a vacancy.'


They won't want to be left with a space and who knows if the other parents will all be working and requiring childcare this time next month. Nothing to lose by putting that thought into her head. Good luck!

izoomzoom

To be honest with you, I would just write a letter (along the lines that have been suggested) and say what you are going to do to reduce the outstanding amount. Stop asking if it is okay for you to do this or that. It just gives them an opportunity to say no.

Say that you have set up a SO to pay £100 (eg) per month against the arrears and make sure that this is in place (and make sure you check the payment gets taken from your account).

I also appreciate that you feel that there is a discrepancy with the account, in terms of what the exact amount is, but payments need to be made in the interim. Personally I would reconcile the account myself (after checking deductions from the voucher company / your bank account) and when you think you have the final figure, give the breakdown to them to check / persue.

FATBALLZ

I'd imagine they can take you to court for the money you owe them and get a ruling made where you have to pay them, but if you don't have the money it's probably only going to be a monthly amount anyway.

Have to disagree with the others that the nursery are being unreasonable in asking for the money back, you are £x better off as a result of these missed payments, so they can reasonably expect you to have £x spare to pay them. They are right to be a bit peeved that you've squandered the money in the meantime.

whitewing

Fatballz, you are absolutely right in theory, but in practice the majority of people do not reconcile bank accounts and just spend what's there. Plus, if you are attending nursery regularly you would reasonably expect them to flag up any problems very quickly.