Freedom Bill (again)

Shevchenko01

HO87 wrote: »

Firstly, I recommend that you conduct a little research before you hold forth on the subject.

Secondly, ignorance of the law is indeed no excuse. By the same token, the law makes it plain that it is not lawful to levy a contractual penalty but it doesn't stop these companies from doing so despite the repeated knock-back at court. That is less ignorance than sheer disregard.

Attempting to force people to act lawfully by following t's and c's that are rarely publicised in total and then attempting to impose an unlawful penalty themselves doesn't smack to me of businesses that truly wish to see that the law upheld.

I can only comment in relation to what I know - and what I know is how the car-parks in my locality are run. Most (if not nearly all) are council owned but privatly run but their T&Cs are clearly displayed on entry to barrier operated CPs and on the Pay & Display boards in those CPs. Perhaps due to pressure placed by our local council (I don't know), these CPs are run fairly and anyone that doesnt pay, parks in a disabled space, or in a manner prohibited by the T&Cs deserve what they get here....

Any other area, where companies do whet you state, then I have no regards for these firms and every sympathy for the user. That is not to say that there isn't a **small** minority of people that will use every trick in their book to get away with not paying for a service and they of course leave a stain on the vast majority.

Oopsadaisy

Council and PPC are completely different animals.

Shevchenko01

But what about council owned but PPC run? Bit of a hybrid!

HO87

Shevchenko01 wrote: »

But what about council owned but PPC run? Bit of a hybrid!

No. Council owned inevitably means council operated (to some degree) at least even if that amounts to setting the legal basis. Councils simply do not stray into the territory that the PPC's do.

Shevchenko01

Well, I've learnt something new today!

AlexisV

Having said that, councils can employ private parking companies to run any car parks they own and act like any other private landowner. Councils don't necessarily have to enforce using the TMA 2004. Sometimes they find it's more profitable to outsource and profit off the back of the 'scam' instead of employing staff to enforce penalty charges themselves.

Coupon-mad

Shevchenko01 wrote: »

I can only comment in relation to what I know - and what I know is how the car-parks in my locality are run. Most (if not nearly all) are council owned but privatly run but their T&Cs are clearly displayed on entry to barrier operated CPs and on the Pay & Display boards in those CPs. Perhaps due to pressure placed by our local council (I don't know), these CPs are run fairly and anyone that doesnt pay, parks in a disabled space, or in a manner prohibited by the T&Cs deserve what they get here....

You don't have any large Supermarkets in your locality then? Or B&Q or Homebase or Wickes, etc? No private residential flats at all? No motorway link leading to Motorway Services? No hospitals?

All of those are usually infested with PPCs.

I get the impression when you are thinking of car parks you are thinking of pay and display and multi storey efforts. But most of the situations we deal with on here are not in P&D or multi-storey car parks, but in places where people are invited to park.

TrickyWicky

Shevchenko01 wrote: »

But what about council owned but PPC run? Bit of a hybrid!

Not a hybrid, its more common than you'd realise. Some councils have so many car parks they can't physically manage them or patrol them all so they contract them out to a PPC.

HO87 wrote: »

No. Council owned inevitably means council operated (to some degree) at least even if that amounts to setting the legal basis. Councils simply do not stray into the territory that the PPC's do.

That depends. My former council had a car park that was being run by one of the large branded PPCs. The council had nothing to do with the way it was run and didn't get involved in it at all. All they did was get some money back in return for the PPC operating it.

Shevchenko01

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You don't have any large Supermarkets in your locality then? Or B&Q or Homebase or Wickes, etc? No private residential flats at all? No motorway link leading to Motorway Services? No hospitals?

All of those are usually infested with PPCs.

I get the impression when you are thinking of car parks you are thinking of pay and display and multi storey efforts. But most of the situations we deal with on here are not in P&D or multi-storey car parks, but in places where people are invited to park.

OK, I get you.

In my neck of the woods however (I live in the country...ish) there are not many big stores and, to the best of my knowlege, there have never really been any issues with the supermarkets, etc. As for Hospital CPs, they're free here! Yay!!

I do drive MWays a fair bit and often see signs stating that there is a time limit and some other T&Cs but again, never had any issue with them.

Coupon-mad

The Freedoms Bill was discussed at Committee again on 29th November. I found the discussion and some deluded 'Baroness' actually tried to get an amendment through to allow clamping!!! This is she:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroness_Hayter_of_Kentish_Town

To read everything that was discussed, all the speeches about it, go down to the bottom of this page as all the rest is about DNA database issues:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2011-11-29a.131.6

Then it continues here:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2011-11-29a.210.6

OMG - but it seems her 'amendment' was withdrawn.

:mad: :eek: