Public Sector Pension Strikes – A JOKE !

CLAPTON

k66yla wrote: »

My Royal Mail pensions are virtually worthless now. Many years ago RM/Government took a pension holiday for 13 years, whilst the workers still paid in. Now we are on a career average pension rather than a final salary one because they messed up!. The government will sell off RM cheap to a foreign buyer and keep the pension deficit(approx £8b) because of the £24 billion of assets.

perhaps you could give us details of your scheme
how much you paid in and for how long and how much the pension will be

ILW

bilbo51 wrote: »

Who do you think should pay for the pensions (and other costs) of public sector workers?

They should pay for their pensions out of their wages, like everybody else does. Possibly pay into a fund run by their unions, but don't expect guaranteed amounts if they cannot show the necessary return.

DCodd

If you really want parity between the public sector and private sector and have the defined benefits pensions reduced or removed, are you prepared to remove the defined salary of the public sector and align those salaries with the private sector?

Will you pay a teacher the equivalent of a teacher in the private schools and provide equal benefits?

Will you pay the doctors and nurses the equivalent to their private sector collegues?

Will you allow the public sector, bonuses and pay rises negotiated on an individual basis?

Will you allow the public sector the same legal rights to take their employer to court over breach of contract and at the same time' remove that employers ability to change the law for their own benefit?

Probably no for the first 4 and not possible for the last one, hence the strikes.

Ilya_Ilyich

What's with this bizarre meme that public sector pensions are 'paid for by the private sector'? It's as if people think public sector workers don't pay tax or buy products from private companies.

jamesd

Ilya, all of it is paid for by the private sector. Doesn't matter what tax is taken out of public sector pay or what the pay is spent on, that money was originally from taxes. Paying someone £100 and taking £40 back in tax leaving them £60 doesn't change where the £40 and £60 parts originally came from. That's also why some say that taxing public sector employees is an accounting trick - such claims are based on noticing that all the tax really does is reduce the outgoing cost a bit - moving the money from one account to another.

For an individual public sector employee this is moot because it's still tax on their pay from their viewpoint, even if it did all come from taxes originally.

DCodd, I'd be happy to agree to equalising terms between public and private sector based on supply, demand and a free market. If public sector teachers can find places paying more than they get now, good luck to them in moving to those jobs. That's already an option that they have. Same for doctors and nurses, find a higher paying job, best wishes for a successful move to it. Rubbish collection? Admin? Same, no problem to let people move if they can find a job offering them more or better conditions.

Private sector employers get the law changed for their benefit so no reason to expect a public sector employer to refrain from doing that.

DCodd

jamesd wrote: »

Ilya, all of it is paid for by the private sector. Doesn't matter what tax is taken out of public sector pay or what the pay is spent on, that money was originally from taxes. Paying someone £100 and taking £40 back in tax leaving them £60 doesn't change where the £40 and £60 parts originally came from. That's also why some say that taxing public sector employees is an accounting trick - such claims are based on noticing that all the tax really does is reduce the outgoing cost a bit - moving the money from one account to another.

For an individual public sector employee this is moot because it's still tax on their pay from their viewpoint, even if it did all come from taxes originally.

being pedantic but all the money in the world originates from the Crown / State therefore all the money is public sector.

DCodd, I'd be happy to agree to equalising terms between public and private sector based on supply, demand and a free market. If public sector teachers can find places paying more than they get now, good luck to them in moving to those jobs. That's already an option that they have. Same for doctors and nurses, find a higher paying job, best wishes for a successful move to it. Rubbish collection? Admin? Same, no problem to let people move if they can find a job offering them more or better conditions.

Private sector employers get the law changed for their benefit so no reason to expect a public sector employer to refrain from doing that.

It is not an option as there is not enough money to afford private sector levels of service from public sector bodies, hence an increase in tax would be required, making the current levels of finance look a bargain, or private service levels of fees to the individual.

Ilya_Ilyich

jamesd wrote: »

Ilya, all of it is paid for by the private sector. Doesn't matter what tax is taken out of public sector pay or what the pay is spent on, that money was originally from taxes. Paying someone £100 and taking £40 back in tax leaving them £60 doesn't change where the £40 and £60 parts originally came from. That's also why some say that taxing public sector employees is an accounting trick - such claims are based on noticing that all the tax really does is reduce the outgoing cost a bit - moving the money from one account to another.

For an individual public sector employee this is moot because it's still tax on their pay from their viewpoint, even if it did all come from taxes originally.

This makes no sense at all though. You could equally say that taxes mean nothing because they go straight to public sector workers who then spend them in the private sector. Indeed the fact that we're running a deficit indicates the the public sector is transferring more wealth to the private sector than it takes from it in taxes.

CLAPTON

Ilya_Ilyich wrote: »

This makes no sense at all though. You could equally say that taxes mean nothing because they go straight to public sector workers who then spend them in the private sector. Indeed the fact that we're running a deficit indicates the the public sector is transferring more wealth to the private sector than it takes from it in taxes.

not really
the deficit is not the difference between service delivered and taxes raised as it also includes transfer payments i.e. benefit payments, pensions (state and public) which one can't credible call 'private sector'.

Old_Slaphead

DCodd wrote: »

being pedantic but all the money in the world originates from the Crown / State therefore all the money is public sector.

Being even more pedantic the money originates from printers like De La Rue therefore all money is private sector. Next?

DCodd

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Being even more pedantic the money originates from printers like De La Rue therefore all money is private sector. Next?

Who are employed by the state /crown to do so!

getting boring now!!!