Road Tax Fine From Two Councils - One of them two years later - Advice

chris_uk2

Hi all,

I hope you can help/guide me to a fairly peculiar situation that I have found myself into. The story begins back in 2009, when I failed to pay my road tax and my car was rightly clamped, taken away and crushed. I paid my fine straight away and I thought everything was rectified and I could move on. One think I would like to clarify is that my car was clamped outside my work which is a different council to the one my home is.

Moving forward two years and a month ish I receive a letter from the council where my home is, saying that there is an outstanding fine from 2009. When I contacted them to ask what was the fine related to they said it was a motoring one. I immediately told them that I have paid it and I produced evidence. A week later they replied back saying that they recognise the evidence but the fine I paid was from the council that the car was clamped(work). I replied straight to them saying that was for the same offence and if they could clarify matters further.

I did not receive anything till today the 16th of November, i arrived home and they were two arrest warnings waiting for me, both of the with different references and sent dates. The first one was 1st of November and the second one 3rd of November, i would like you to bear in mind that they are aware that i am disputing the fine and my latest correspondence with them was not sent till the 2nd of November and received from them on the third (all correspondence sent by me was first class and recorded).

I will call them first thing tomorrow morning again and try to clarify things. I have looked around the forum and googled it but i have failed to find something similar to my situation. If this issue has been address previously in this forum please accept my apologies and please post a link with the correct thread.

If it has not been addressed i would like some advice please. I have a number of questions:

1. is it correct that two different councils fine me for the same offence?
2. if the above is correct, why i was not contacted earlier by the council and they had to wait two years (i have not moved house or a job the last 5 years)?
3. the fact that to years have passed how does it affect the whole situation.

Thank you in advance for all your help

Rover_Driver

Are you sure it's for no tax as that is dealt with by DVLA not councils. Problems with councils are usually about parking.

IanD

Surely it's a basic principle in English law that you can't be punished for the same offence twice.

I used this argument when I received two parking tickets on consecutive days. I got the second ticket cancelled as it had been issued for the same offence as the first -I had not moved my car for 3 days.

Once the second ticket had been cancelled, I successfully challenged the first ticket as the date on the photographic evidence they provided didn't match the date the ticket was issued.

My offence was to park with one of my rear tyres less than an inch over the bay marking.

chris_uk2

Rover_Driver wrote: »

Are you sure it's for no tax as that is dealt with by DVLA not councils. Problems with councils are usually about parking.

thank you for getting back to me
i never had a parking ticket, do you mean parking the untaxed vehicle?

chris_uk2

IanD wrote: »

Surely it's a basic principle in English law that you can't be punished for the same offence twice.

I used this argument when I received two parking tickets on consecutive days. I got the second ticket cancelled as it had been issued for the same offence as the first -I had not moved my car for 3 days.

Once the second ticket had been cancelled, I successfully challenged the first ticket as the date on the photographic evidence they provided didn't match the date the ticket was issued.

My offence was to park with one of my rear tyres less than an inch over the bay marking.

thank you for your reply
My thoughts exactly, punished twice for the same thing, it does not seem right. the language on both letters was very threatening but i assume that is standard practice.

What about the fact that it was two years later?

Rover_Driver

DVLA will clamp take away and crush an untaxed vehicle, councils will take away incorrectly parked vehicles.
Untaxed vehicles are a criminal matters, council parking problems are (usually) civil matters so there different ways of dealing with them.

chris_uk2

Rover_Driver wrote: »

DVLA will clamp take away and crush an untaxed vehicle, councils will take away incorrectly parked vehicles.
Untaxed vehicles are a criminal matters, council parking problems are (usually) civil matters so there different ways of dealing with them.

hi rover

i understand the difference and that is why is so confusing to me hence i am here looking for some guidance. I had a parking ticket 6 years ago in a different council which i paid promptly.

chris_uk2

@rover is parking a untaxed vehicle outside your house a parking problem that the council needs to resolve.

my apologies for all the questions but i am a bit worried as i said the language of that letter is threatening. As i said i will call them first thing tomorrow morning so i would like to be as prepared as possible

spiro

There are several amounts you can be charged as a result of what you did:
1) Clamping charge
2) Towing charge
3) Storage charge (before car was crushed)
4) Unpaid car tax
5) Fine for not having car tax

From the paperwork you had when you paid and the letters you are getting now do you know which of the above you have paid and which may be outstanding?

It could be that council A clamped your car but council B carried out the towing etc.

chris_uk2

spiro wrote: »

There are several amounts you can be charged as a result of what you did:
1) Clamping charge
2) Towing charge
3) Storage charge (before car was crushed)
4) Unpaid car tax
5) Fine for not having car tax

From the paperwork you had when you paid and the letters you are getting now do you know which of the above you have paid and which may be outstanding?

It could be that council A clamped your car but council B carried out the towing etc.

Good morning spiro and thank your reply
Everything was carried out from council A (where i work), as i know it was stored on the local NCP facility as i got called to ask if certain documents were in.

I will quote the letter:

Further steps Notice

The amount you owe is £280 (i paid £275 two years ago)
As you have failed to make payment as directed, you hereby given notice that one or more of the following steps listed below will be taken against you:

1) issue a warrant of distress for the purpose of levying the sum assume
2) Register the account in the Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines, which could restrict further credit options available to you and make it difficult to get loads
3) Make an Attachement of Earning Order (for deductions to be made from your salary) or an application for benefit deductions etc etc
4) Make a vehicle clamping order
5) Refer your case to court which may decide to increase your fine by 50%, take further action or commit you to prison

Payment in full, within 10 working days of this notice will cancel any further action. Please contact this office immediately if you cannot pay as directed

Appeal

you have the right to appeal to the court against the Fines Officer's decision. such Appeal must be made in writing station the reason for your appeal and supported by any written evidence you have. It must be received by this office, at above address within 10 working days from the date of this notice

I replied back to them detailing that the fine was paid with all the evidence (bank statement and e-receipt from their website)

They replied

With reference to your recent correspondence dated 24.10.2011. I can confirm we did receive your payment on the 03.08.2009 but this offence was from A (where i work) magistrates' court account number---xxxxxxxx. the account number xxxxx, is from B (where i leave) magistrates' court, for no car tax. Payment in full is now due.

I replied back on the 2nd November saying

Dear Mr xxxxxxx

I hope you are well; with reference to your recent correspondence (account num: xxxxx) dated 26th of October 2011, thank you for assisting me with the issue, the A(where i work) Magistrates’ court fine paid was for no car tax. As you correctly indicated it was fully paid. In addition, I would to bring to your attention that the whole incident took place 2 years ago and I did not have any correspondence related to the matter


Yours Sincerely xxxxx

02/11/2011

My apologies for the lengthy email and thank you for all your help

chris_uk2

Good morning all

I just called them and they say that they never received my second letter, i have delivery proof and all. they said they will get back to me as the person that is dealing with it is not in. I have to admit the lady on the phone was very helpful. they said that i should have only one arrest warning, not two. I guess things are looking up.