Free and Cheap Insulation Official Discussion

taffy056

Rangler did you get my Private Message I sent you ?

taffy056

2010 wrote: »

I`ll repeat there is no concrete proof that CWI insulation saves you money and makes your house warmer.
If you know of such proof, post a link.
I do believe that research is being undertaken at the moment into this but it will take several years to provide proof one way or another.

http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/about/science/publications/analysis/analysis.aspx

Effectiveness of cavity wall insulation This report describes the results of ‘in situ’ measurements carried out to investigate how well cavity wall insulation performs in practice. It concluded that cavity wall insulation helps to improve energy efficiency in dwellings but that for many houses, the coverage of cavity wall insulation is not complete, partly due to the way walls are constructed.


Direct PDF download

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/about-us/economics-social-research/3146-thermal-transmittance.pdf

2010

taffy056 wrote: »

The proof is in the many people who have installed CWI over the last 20-25 years, and the fact that all new builds must have insulation in the form of either Thermo Blocks, Cavity bats or CWI when built.

There`s a whole lot of difference between insulating a cavity as the house is being built and filling an existing unviewable one.


http://www.premier-heritage.co.uk/2009/08/cavity-wall-insulation-what-are-the-benefits/

http://www.askjeff.co.uk/cavity.html

Conclusion. There are many people who have had cavity wall insulation installed, who have experienced no problems with internal dampness or wall tie corrosion, and have experienced increased levels of comfort and lower fuel bills. Unfortunately there are also people who have suffered serious problems, and who have found it very difficult - or impossible - to get these problems recognised and rectified. The cavity insulation industry, and government agencies, do themselves no favours by pretending that these problems do not exist. My own opinion is that injecting insulation into an existing cavity wall is a bad idea, with the potential to create problems whose rectification costs will far outweigh any savings in fuel costs, or corresponding environmental benefits.

As I said earlier I decided that even getting it free was not a chance I was prepared to take for something of of so little proven value but so much risk.

The energy companies have to give loft/CWI away for free because of government climate targets, so there`s no need for anyone to pay for it.
Although every consumer of energy is paying for it through higher prices.

I notice you didn`t acknowledge that EDF was giving it away free to ANYONE after contradicting me.

taffy056

EDF give insulation for free yes, but fall under the same standards for all CERT grants, that is the cheapest insulation installed which is mineral wool, scaffolding is not included in problem properties, and a huge number of properties left to insulate are problem properties. so anyone who basically has single extensions with pitched roofs, conservatories, or large porches no standing areas of 1 in 4 for ladders, and bushes or uneven paths all will require scaffolding. I know because we fit for EDF a lot! And they send us work they cannot do! As for loft insulation, you must be no more than 60mm of insulation , 1mm over and they want to charge you circa £250 like British Gas, we are more flexible and do not go around with a ruler measuring insulation .

And the energy companies do not have to give away insulation for free, don't make an assumption as clearly you are not explaining all the facts here, there is free insulation for people over 70 or on certain benefits, they have set out maximum meterages for that, for example on a 3 bed semi its 55sqm in the loft and 90sqm for the cavity, as it quite clearly states on various energy company websites about non standard properties. Also people who don't fit the above criteria must contribute towards the cost!

And cavity wall insulation has been installed for about 25 years, and a vast number of people have never had a problem with any type of insulation, there are problems and I am not hiding from it, most problems occur because a property should not have been insulated , for example because of rubble in the cavity, cracks in the plasterwork, pre-existing damp problems, ventilation problems or even because a driveway has come over the damp course. Any competent person checking a property would take note of these and not put the job on! I saw today a property with cracks running the course of the building that had insulation installed about a month ago, it was a council house, and will have problems I think! It was installed by one of the largest insulation companies in the UK, they are very often the reason why there are horror stories!

And 2010 its very easy to say that there are problems with insulation and the companies installing, but I know that there are far many more success stories than failings, I speak to people who have had insulation installed everyday as part of my job, and a majority are happy with what they have had.

In regards to your second link, yes they are removing mineral wool insulation, our company has teams who's job is solely that, the work is undertaken by CIGA under the guarantee, and we remove third party insulation as we don't install mineral wool at all. As for the bonded bead, its blown with an adhesive, the mixture is constant as technology has actually moved on. The diamond bead insulation we install is for all exposure zones, and has passed Part L of the building codes. We install in a lot of new builds, including my own home by the way!

I can find plenty of links to put my argument on this, but there is little point as people will research through google and make their own minds up. Though I notice you haven't commented on the DECC report above that basically debunks your statements that insulation doesn't work.

Toony

I applied to have free insulation from British Gas and having had a surveyor call out, was delighted to learn that I qualified for this. The work was carried out very quickly and when I looked into the loft I realised why - instead of laying the insulation between the joists, they had just laid the insulation straight over the top adding notices warning against any storage in the loft unless boarded out. When the surveyor visited it was obvious that we stored items in the loft however, the method of laying the insulation was never discussed. I am now left with a useless space which means that I either have to pay to have the insulation re-laid properly or boarded out - not cheap! Had I been told that the insulation was going to be laid in such a slap dash fashion, rendering my loft space useless I probably wouldn't have bothered as the storage space is more important to me than saving a few pounds a year on fuel bills. I also would have prefered to pay someone to do the job properly. I think the forumites need to be aware of this practise of installing the insulation if, like me, they use their loft for storage. This is turning out to be a very expensive 'freebie'!

taffy056

Sorry to hear about your problems toony, its industry standard to place the second layer of insulation at right angles across the joists to avoid cold bridging through the joists, which means the loss of heat through them. The assessor who came to see you should have explained that to you. That person should have also explained that it is possible to leave a storage area for you. The installers would not have known that if nobody explained to them what was needed to be fair.

jap200

FREE Insulation for us being installed right now - 4 Bed detached house - and we are not on benefits of any kind!

I have a man from 'Homewarm' in my loft right now installing huge quantities of loft insulation totally free of charge. We are not on any kind of benefits, but we applied through the EDF energy website. We are EDF gas and electricity customers, but are in the process of switching to E-on. There was a form to fill in asking if you were on any benefits, but you do not have to tick 'yes' to qualify. You don't even need to be an EDF customer!

We had only 1 inch of insulation in the loft, but loads of our own rubbish up there, so spend a horrible weekend clearing it and lifting the (thankfully loose) boards. Got rid of most of the stuff on freecycle or the tip and will put only a minimal amount back up. The installer has advised us to let them insulate the whole loft and we can then move the top layer stuff out of the way to lay some Space Boards (or similar) with chipboard on top in a small area near the loft hatch.

Edit: I just went up to see how it was going - first layer is now in between the joists and it's looking great. I notice that they are using high quality Knauf insulation as well, not the cheapo stuff we would have used! I'm leaving him to do the second layer at right angles now.

Edit 2: All done very neatly - most impressed. We now have a total of 270 mm insulation in the loft. I was even offered a huge unused roll that was left over. He has given me clear instructions as to what we will need to do to board an area for storage too.

I am impressed with this free offer from EDF - it finally made us get around to doing something we should have done when we moved in 10 years ago!

SueC_2

Well, I have DGI (via EDF) doing an installation at the moment. He's using Instafibre. Any views as to whether that's good bad or indifferent?

Loobylev

Just wondering if anyone can advise on whether blown in loft insulation is a good call or not? British Gas have stated I can only have this option as my loft hatch is too small to be able to lay the conventional rolls in between the joists. Even though I'm well chuffed to have free insulation offered I've never even heard of this method? I have done a bit of research and it looks really messy but can't find anyone who has it?! Should I just fork out the £84 they charge to widen my hatch and go down the conventional route to be on the safe side?

Any advice gratefully received please!!!

Cheers
Loo

2010

Loobylev wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone can advise on whether blown in loft insulation is a good call or not? British Gas have stated I can only have this option as my loft hatch is too small to be able to lay the conventional rolls in between the joists. Even though I'm well chuffed to have free insulation offered I've never even heard of this method? I have done a bit of research and it looks really messy but can't find anyone who has it?! Should I just fork out the £84 they charge to widen my hatch and go down the conventional route to be on the safe side?

Any advice gratefully received please!!!

Cheers
Loo

This type was installed by the builders when I bought my house from new.
I didn`t find it very effective, probably because they skimped on the overall thickness.
It does tend to go all over the place and you end up with deep areas and other areas with barely any covering.
Also the draft from the gap in the eaves tends to move it as well.

I have noticed with this so-called "free insulation"** that there does seem to be problems which can usually be overcome at a price.
ie: small hatch, loft area too big for the free allowance so extra needed, etc..

It seems there is a certain amount "free"** and anything extra the installers can get out of you is a bonus.

** It`s not free anyway because we all pay extra for our energy to meet government climate targets, greenhouse gases etc.
The energy companies have to give it away "free" otherwise they face a hefty penalty.