Should Headteachers or Civil Servants be made to pay for their mismanagement

poet123

MrRee wrote: »

Generally, the LEA would rather sacrifice a GB than a HeadTeacher ... I admire what you did - but, truthfully, they should have been sacked with no option of resignation.

It wasn't easy, made harder by the fact that he was a nice man who was a great teacher but not a manager. He had risen beyond the level of his own competence, which sadly is not an isolated incident. We are a strong GB with a couple of lawyers, doctors and other professionals and we did what we had to do and the LEA did (eventually) see we were serious and backed our judgement.

ILW wrote: »

Did he stay in the profession, I would suspect he did.

He did, but not as a head, he went back to teaching.

MrRee_2

poet123 wrote: »

He did, but not as a head, he went back to teaching.

No need for a referrence in that case ..... the fall back in rank tells its own story.

Jennifer_Jane

thescouselander wrote: »

Its not like that sort of thing only happens in the public sector - my dad did the same thing when he left BT.

Also, 12 years ago I doubt many civil servants were getting anything like the figures you're talking about. Today the average civil servant only gets around £22k so 12 years ago they'd be getting a lot less than that and their pension payout would be commensurate with that figure. Basically your figures are not representative of the typical civil service payout.

It's wrong whether it happens in the private sector or the public sector. Nevertheless, I do understand your dad taking advantage of that system. But companies should stop it.

Whether it's the taxpayer or whether it's pension fund holders/ shareholders, it's still wrong. It's immoral and stupid behaviour on the part of the Company. One could say that shareholders at least have some choice in whether or not to invest in that Company, but most shares are in pension funds, and therefore there is no choice.

abaxas

MrRee wrote: »

It's impossible to get rid of Teachers or Head Teachers.

Only 18 (yes, that's EIGHTEEN!) incompetent Teachers have been dismissed in 40 years - and that is staggering!!

We are letting our children down by not sorting this mess out - but no-one within the school will do anything.

We can all remember crap Teachers from our youth - well, they haven't gone away - they are still Teaching children up and down the country.

It doesnt matter how crap teachers are. The examination systems are designed so every passes.

A lump of jelly is as much of a teacher as kids need now.

noodle_doodle

I love teachers. Will this get me banned?

Anyways, the problem with public sector and a lot of private sector is that to get mo' money, you need promotion. And promotion is about doing things like managing, admin etc that require completely different skill sets to the ones you've just proved yourself at (teaching, staring kids down etc). But it's the only way to get more green, this obsession with linking pay to "management"

It should be more like football where better footballers get more money for doing exactly the same job but just better and the people who manage them don't necessarily get more (and often less). And, also like football, bear in mind that the best players don't make the best managers and vice versa.

thorsoak

Should Headteachers or Civil Servants be made to pay for there miss management
Maybe headteachers should be made to pay for the fact that people come out of education unable to differentiate between there and their and mis- and miss!!

(sorry just couldn't sit on hands any more!)

Kennyboy66

ILW wrote: »

A system like used in some of the more agressive private sector companies where the lowest performing 5% of managers are sacked every year would improve things no end.

I would be interested in how this works.

Would it be a bit like Enron ?

It sounds like a great plan if you wish to manage by fear, retribution and paranoia.

thorsoak

In the end, it all comes down to the Peter Principle ....people are promoted to the level of their own incompetance!

The_White_Horse

no one in the public sector is paid on results. that is half of the problem.

when i suggested to a moaning teacher friend of mine that he should be paid according the results his class achieved, he laughed. he mocked.

public sector cretins. no idea.

Prudent

bobthedambuilder wrote: »

And exactly what financial training does a head teacher get to enable them to manage anything? Aren't they trained as teachers?

I am not sure what the situation is in England, but in Scotland there is now a qualification for headship. Most HTs begin leadership qualification at principle teacher stage which is only one step above the classroom teacher. They would then usually become assistant heads and deputy heads before becoming a HT. Many local authorities put prospective HTs in temporary positions asking them to cover secondments/ long term illnesses etc before permanent promtion. There are reasonable measures in place to check competency, but as in every other sector some slip through the net.