We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Should Headteachers or Civil Servants be made to pay for their mismanagement
Comments
-
Wouldn't that be a wonderful way to do things?
In reality it never happens that way - too many vested interests.
A HeadTeacher of a big school who gets paid over £100,000 didn't get there by doing as he/she was told .... oh, no, they are very cute in managing people.
In the same way as they manage their staff .. they manage the Governing Board. They 'befreind' certain individuals of the board. They manipulate the Chairperson.
Heads know their school inside out - Governors haven't 1% of the knowledge needed to challenge the Head ...... and therein lies the problem.
Add to the mix that there are Parent Governors who rightly are concerned about rocking the boat because their children may suffer if they do .... and you have, in effect, a impotent Governing Board.
The Head 'suggests' that there should be a very small 'Pay & Performance Committee' which can take the drudgery and time consuming decisions of pay .... how convenient that this 'select' group are weak and have been 'got at'.
The painful truth is that most Heads are in control of their pay, their senior teams pay and in control of everything which goes on .... the money comes from a bottomless pit and Heads do not give it one thought as they reward themselves and their favourites each pay round.
It takes a very special Head to not become corrupt in the face of such vast wealth and such little opposition to their actions.
I would point out, however, that these Teachers you see on TV complaining that they have had their pay frozen, have NOT received no pay rise!
Teachers move up a scale, you see. They receive a pay rise each and every year .... what they are complaining about is that they will not get TWO payrises this year as they normally would! Which wins them no sympathy from me I'm afraid.
That's put that straight ... for those who didn't know how things actually happen - and what every taxpayer is paying for ... it needs stopping.
I think some of these point are very key
It is very difficult for partime governors who maybe on sit on the committee for only a year or so to counter the Head and Deputies.
There needs to be specific measures to prevent corruption (or simply self interest) that will inevitable occur with the spread of foundation type school independant of local government0 -
That is a very select few, as opposed to a whole system. In the end if you own a company and screw up, you can lose everything.
Many schools are run very efficiently, if it was given to the private sector costs would be significantly higher.
Public sector money just receives more rigour in how money is spent rather than what private firms spend money on and aren't able to generate arge profits one year to bail them out in future years. Lots of the top business people in the uk have filed for bankruptcy at one point or another owing significant sums to creditors and then public money is spent to bail them out.
Plus pensions for those running large organisations in the private sector isn't bad either.0 -
I have done, and the policy went right up the scale.
It was in sales so relatively simple to administer.
Miss your targets and out the door, the contracts were worded to cover it.
You don't tend to end up with any passengers.
I'm a little doubtful whether this is applicable to areas other than sales.
I'm not entirely sure how one measure say success teaching a child with learning difficulties
Interestingly, why didn't you stay, presumably the rewards were fantanstic?0 -
I have done, and the policy went right up the scale.
It was in sales so relatively simple to administer.
Miss your targets and out the door, the contracts were worded to cover it.
You don't tend to end up with any passengers.
That's an interesting setup - I'm still not sure this would be legal for permanent employees though. Were these people on short term contracts?0 -
Wouldn't that be a wonderful way to do things?
In reality it never happens that way - too many vested interests.
A HeadTeacher of a big school who gets paid over £100,000 didn't get there by doing as he/she was told .... oh, no, they are very cute in managing people.
In the same way as they manage their staff .. they manage the Governing Board. They 'befreind' certain individuals of the board. They manipulate the Chairperson.
Heads know their school inside out - Governors haven't 1% of the knowledge needed to challenge the Head ...... and therein lies the problem.
Add to the mix that there are Parent Governors who rightly are concerned about rocking the boat because their children may suffer if they do .... and you have, in effect, a impotent Governing Board.
The Head 'suggests' that there should be a very small 'Pay & Performance Committee' which can take the drudgery and time consuming decisions of pay .... how convenient that this 'select' group are weak and have been 'got at'.
The painful truth is that most Heads are in control of their pay, their senior teams pay and in control of everything which goes on .... the money comes from a bottomless pit and Heads do not give it one thought as they reward themselves and their favourites each pay round.
It takes a very special Head to not become corrupt in the face of such vast wealth and such little opposition to their actions.
I would point out, however, that these Teachers you see on TV complaining that they have had their pay frozen, have NOT received no pay rise!
Teachers move up a scale, you see. They receive a pay rise each and every year .... what they are complaining about is that they will not get TWO payrises this year as they normally would! Which wins them no sympathy from me I'm afraid.
That's put that straight ... for those who didn't know how things actually happen - and what every taxpayer is paying for ... it needs stopping.
I did agree with some of your point with some head teachers having too much influence over governors etc until your rant at the end.
Teachers do not get a pay rise every year, the main scale only goes for 6 points, therefore 6 years. 46 years of scale increases I'm sure none of the teachers would have issue with their pay being reduced
0 -
I'm a little doubtful whether this is applicable to areas other than sales.
I'm not entirely sure how one measure say success teaching a child with learning difficulties
Interestingly, why didn't you stay, presumably the rewards were fantanstic?
Got too old and couldn't handle the pressure anymore. As opposed to civil service where there is still a "jobs for life" culture, no matter how little value one has to the taxpayer.0 -
Got too old and couldn't handle the pressure anymore. As opposed to civil service where there is still a "jobs for life" culture, no matter how little value one has to the taxpayer.
That doesn't sound like a good way to run a business to be honest. If the pressure is too high and people keep leaving how do you build up experience in the work force?
I know of a company that put a lot of pressure on their employees - all their best guys left to work at competitor companies that had better working conditions. We don't do as much business with them these days because they just don't have the people with the right skills.0 -
Got too old and couldn't handle the pressure anymore. As opposed to civil service where there is still a "jobs for life" culture, no matter how little value one has to the taxpayer.
Yes, and how many in the public sector, especially teaching, will sight "stress" for an early retirement, with a fat final salary pension, largely paid for by the taxpayer, and then suddenly find that they are well enough to suddenly take up other jobs or part-time supply teaching? Please! You know it and you know you are on to a good thing! However, maybe, just maybe, you don't? That may well be what many of us in the private sector have wondered for years. Maybe you just don't get it! Maybe you just don't!There is a pleasure in the pathless woods, There is a rapture on the lonely shore, There is society, where none intrudes, By the deep sea, and music in its roar: I love not man the less, but Nature more...0 -
Wouldn't that be a wonderful way to do things?
In reality it never happens that way - too many vested interests.
A HeadTeacher of a big school who gets paid over £100,000 didn't get there by doing as he/she was told .... oh, no, they are very cute in managing people.
In the same way as they manage their staff .. they manage the Governing Board. They 'befreind' certain individuals of the board. They manipulate the Chairperson.
Heads know their school inside out - Governors haven't 1% of the knowledge needed to challenge the Head ...... and therein lies the problem.
Add to the mix that there are Parent Governors who rightly are concerned about rocking the boat because their children may suffer if they do .... and you have, in effect, a impotent Governing Board.
The Head 'suggests' that there should be a very small 'Pay & Performance Committee' which can take the drudgery and time consuming decisions of pay .... how convenient that this 'select' group are weak and have been 'got at'.
The painful truth is that most Heads are in control of their pay, their senior teams pay and in control of everything which goes on .... the money comes from a bottomless pit and Heads do not give it one thought as they reward themselves and their favourites each pay round.
It takes a very special Head to not become corrupt in the face of such vast wealth and such little opposition to their actions.
I would point out, however, that these Teachers you see on TV complaining that they have had their pay frozen, have NOT received no pay rise!
Teachers move up a scale, you see. They receive a pay rise each and every year .... what they are complaining about is that they will not get TWO payrises this year as they normally would! Which wins them no sympathy from me I'm afraid.
That's put that straight ... for those who didn't know how things actually happen - and what every taxpayer is paying for ... it needs stopping.
I accept that this scenario can happen. I do not accept it is common, nor do I accept that there are a myriad of weak people on governing bodies. Most governors I know take their role very seriously and know that sometimes they are not going to be popular either with the head ir with the staff. It goes with the territory, and those who can't cope with that rapidly fall by the wayside.
As for the pay scales and increments you have it wrong, so not put straight really, just a jaundiced view from someone who probably has a back-story of either bad governance or an axe to grind that their views were discounted. It happens, you just have to deal with it head on and make your vote count.0 -
thescouselander wrote: »I'm not sure you understand how the civil service works - in effect no-one is allowed to make any decisions unilaterally for a number of reasons to do with policy. Any decisions taken have to be signed off by countless numbers of people until it is not possible to tell who actually made the decision to begin with. This is actually part of the problem IMO but you cant hold people accountable unless they are empowered to actually make decisions.
i am reasonable away how the civil service wrok - i see more unilateral decisions every day than maybe should happen. - i work for a small business that works with lots of bits of local govt/ngos
i do agree that there is too much decision by committee0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.2K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.3K Spending & Discounts
- 245.3K Work, Benefits & Business
- 601K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.5K Life & Family
- 259.1K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards