Landlord won't repair the oven

rizla01

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeofpounds
However, if they are provided as part of a rental then their maintenance has generally been held by the courts to be an assumed part of the contract that was established meaning that landlords have a contractual duty to repair, although not a statutory one.

That is exactly as I always understood but wasn't able to find anything in support of this.


Quote:

Originally Posted by princeofpounds
so by supplying white goods a landlord is implicitly contracting to keep supplying white goods.

That would be the obligation to replace, not necessarily repair, imo.

That is a mute point.

He must MAINTAIN a working white goods item in good order, in other words.

Norman_Castle

"Just to let you you we have spent the 2010 and 2011 budget for repairs for this year and i dont think i will be able to do anything until end of your tenancy. Im sorry about this or maybe you have to pay for the repairs because when you went in the oven was working"

Reply, Just to let you know we have spent this months rent on repairing the cooker.

What does your tenancy agreement say about white goods repairs?

princeofpounds

It seems odd to consider that a contractual obligation exists even when the contract does not mention it

It's not odd at all - as I stated a contract does not have to be written, it does not have to be verbal even - it just requires an intention to contract by both parties and a consideration (~payment of some kind). That can be evidenced by actions alone.

Any reference on this?

I'll go see what I can find, it's been a long time since I educated myself on the topic.

But from this old post on landlordzone, ARLA at least seem to agree with me.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-3795.html

ARLA have replied to my email, they write:

If there are white goods in the property which are owned by the landlord and there is nothing in the tenancy agreement to say he/she won't maintain them, then you can reasonably expect that he/she will maintain them.

White goods do not form part of the landlords repairing/maintenance obligations under section 11, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, therefore he/she can opt to not repair them but this should be stipulated in the tenancy agreement.

poppysarah

I would write asking for the repairs to be done. (I'm assuming it's a fitted oven here)
and suggest a deadline for the repair (approx how long it would take you to source by post the item and get it done) and then write again after this deadline and tell them you will be deducting the money for the repair from the rent and that you have got three quotes for the repair.

If the items are on the inventory and have not been misused it is not the tenants job to repair them.

jjlandlord

princeofpounds wrote: »

as I stated a contract does not have to be written, it does not have to be verbal even - it just requires an intention to contract by both parties and a consideration (~payment of some kind). That can be evidenced by actions alone.

I agree with this, but I think this is not relevant. What I consider odd is to consider that there is a contractual obligation when said obligation is not stipulated in the contract (oral or written).

princeofpounds wrote: »

But from this old post on landlordzone, ARLA at least seem to agree with me.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-3795.html

Thanks for the link.
I do find their reply odd (I do find a lot of things odd ;-) ): "White goods do not form part of the landlords repairing/maintenance obligations under section 11, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, therefore he/she can opt to not repair them but this should be stipulated in the tenancy agreement."

Why would you need to opt out of something that you have no obligation to carry out in the first place?

poppysarah wrote: »

If the items are on the inventory and have not been misused it is not the tenants job to repair them.

Again, based on what?
If light bulbs are on the inventory (and they are usually) should the landlord replace them when they break?

MancubusJam

Thanks for all your replies so far. I am still at work so I can't spend too long on here but my partner has looked in the tennancy agreement and the repair section landlord stuff says the bit of law I quoted in the OP, then then tennancy bit has this:

"It is the tenants obligation to... #3 Make good promptly [sic] all damage and breakages to the premises and to the items listed in the inventory that may occur during the term that are the responsibility of the tenant (with the exception of fair wear and tear and accidental damage by fire), and to inform the Landlord of any such work undertaken."

The oven IS in the inventory, and it WAS fair wear and tear, so is this any sort of implication that the landlord should fix it? Or perhaps implication that I shouldn't?

As for buying a new element, it is beyond that now as the oven won't turn on at all anymore. No fan, no light, no LCD, where as before that all worked but there was no heat. It could be electrical then I suppose. Last week all the electric cut out when a lot was on including the oven. Also we have had the hoover sometimes work, sometimes not work in the same sockets (with oven off) so there could be electrical faults. This would put things back into the "supplying with gas, electricity etc" domain, but she hasn't been very responsive as you can see so I wouldn't expect her to now get an electrician out or take any responsibility for faults killing white goods.

This is a nightmare!

rizla01

jjlandlord wrote: »

I agree with this, but I think this is not relevant. What I consider odd is to consider that there is a contractual obligation when said obligation is not stipulated in the contract (oral or written).



Thanks for the link.
I do find their reply odd (I do find a lot of things odd ;-) ): "White goods do not form part of the landlords repairing/maintenance obligations under section 11, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, therefore he/she can opt to not repair them but this should be stipulated in the tenancy agreement."

Why would you need to opt out of something that you have no obligation to carry out in the first place?




Again, based on what?
If light bulbs are on the inventory (and they are usually) should the landlord replace them when they break?

Surely you can see that if YOU were to view a flat and that flat had lovely expensive curtains hanging from the rail, when you agreed to rent the flat (Verbal Contract) it would be reasonable to assume that those curtains were included in the contract?

More so if it is a FITTED item like a wardrobe, electric or gas fire or an oven, hob or even a washing machine.

princeofpounds

I agree with this, but I think this is not relevant. What I consider odd is to consider that there is a contractual obligation when said obligation is not stipulated in the contract (oral or written).

Contractual obligations can be implicit, not just stipulated.

Read here about 'Implied contracts in fact'.

http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6571042_legal-definition-implied-contract.html

In fact implied terms are hugely important, simply because it is impossible to stipulate every eventuality that can ensue.

"White goods do not form part of the landlords repairing/maintenance obligations under section 11, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, therefore he/she can opt to not repair them but this should be stipulated in the tenancy agreement."

Why would you need to opt out of something that you have no obligation to carry out in the first place?

This is the very essence of the point I am making - because although you don't have a *statutory* obligation (i.e. a rule laid out in law), a landlord can be assumed to have an *implied contractual* obligation if they supply white goods as part of a service for which they receive rental payment in return. So the landlord is free to contract out of repair, but that is something they must actively do.

I.e. they have to honest with the tenant that they won't repair.

RAS

MancubusJam wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies so far. I am still at work so I can't spend too long on here but my partner has looked in the tennancy agreement and the repair section landlord stuff says the bit of law I quoted in the OP, then then tennancy bit has this:

"It is the tenants obligation to... #3 Make good promptly [sic] all damage and breakages to the premises and to the items listed in the inventory that may occur during the term that are the responsibility of the tenant (with the exception of fair wear and tear and accidental damage by fire), and to inform the Landlord of any such work undertaken."

The oven IS in the inventory, and it WAS fair wear and tear, so is this any sort of implication that the landlord should fix it?

As for buying a new element, it is beyond that now as the oven won't turn on at all anymore. No fan, no light, no LCD, where as before that all worked but there was no heat. It could be electrical then I suppose. Last week all the electric cut out when a lot was on including the oven. Also we have had the hoover sometimes work, sometimes not work in the same sockets (with oven off) so there could be electrical faults. This would put things back into the "supplying with gas, electricity etc" domain, but she hasn't been very responsive as you can see so I wouldn't expect her to now get an electrician out or take any responsibility for faults killing white goods.

This is a nightmare!

Write and explain that this is not just about an oven but about the poor state of the electricity supply generally which is causing multiple problems for equipment.

Do you have a smoke alarm?

poppysarah

They're also kindof implying they won't spend any more money for repairs.

What if the heating broke? What if there was another repair needed doing.

When can you give notice?