CSA/CM Question!

Sensemaya

Marisco wrote: »

As you said in your post, emotional blackmail.Glad we agree. There are other ways to get money of a NRP than through the CSA.Please can you quote some examples, generally speaking, of course, and please include examples of ex- partners on speaking terms and non speaking terms.As for a NRP's, my daughter had a hell of a job getting anything off her ex, every time they caught up with him, he would leave his job. So some are capable of doing that, only the op knows what her ex is like and what he is capable of. If he is like my daughters' deadbeat ex husband, then he will do it, so she is better off getting £50 than hassle and a fiver.

What I cannot understand is how an NRP can survive on benefits if they voluntarily give up their job. I suspect from the OP's posting family members are going to support him.

Of course we can have variations on a theme...as always. Every case is unique, but...edit...there are too many to post here, so I will mention a couple:

1. The NRP has formed a new relationship with an NRPP who is so smitten with their new partner they are fool enough to put up with the 'deadbeat' ( I hate that label ) NRP who then manipulates the NRPP to their whim. IE...the NRPP works and the NRP becomes the house-husband or the NRP becomes the 'man of straw' etc. I can't be bothered listings all the different scenerois. I even know of an widowed NRPP who gave up a very good pension to be with a waster of an NRP.

I have found the word whim crops up a lot.

2. As in this case, NRP is weaving the spiders ( note the plural ) web. Blood is thicker than water. Same as lawyers really.

I could go on...

The PWC is being screwed over twice.

Then, maybe, the NRP runs out of options. Everything may fall apart, but the CSA is still there...

Always think of the future...this also works with sister in laws ( SIN for short) but that is a different story. I'm currently having the misfortunue of going through a certain scenario with my SIN.

Never trust relatives. Major and Minor keys are safer.

But a quote from one of my fav films 'You never know what the future holds' (Sydney Greenstreet -There is not enough kindness in the world ). Too true.

Sensemaya

My goodness I forgot to mention the 'self employed' option. I often wonder how these S/E business get off the ground. Having been self employed for years and knowing how difficult it can be to make a living being self employed ( sole trader) I often wonder how the 'get out' works.

Advice: Go self employed.

Doing what?

But that doesn't seem to matter. Non compliant NRPs don't get any helpful advice after that.

I've been trying to find a more profitable business than the one I've been been doing for years....for years.

Marisco

TBH sense, I don't have a clue what you're on about. When I said there are other ways to get money out of a NRP, I meant emotional blackmail. Withholding access unless the NRP gives them more money, money for x y z etc. And if the NRP wants to see the child/ren, then he/she is going to cough up. If he/she is already paying CSA at the rate set, then I'd call demanding extra screwing them.

Anyway we're going off topic. Only the op knows what her ex is like, and if he is likely to give up his job or not. If he's not likely and it's all hot air, then don't give him as much back (unless he's a good earner, then keep the lot) But if he's the sort to jack in his job, then it's best to leave things as they are, than end up with nothing.

sarahk100574

Well that turned into a debate-and-a-half!!

So, in my case my ex would simply work cash in hand if he quits his job, as he has done for the last 10 years or so!
He would defo get no hand-outs from his family... they all think I'm way too soft on him anyway! Mostly cos I have never denied him access (very random etc!) BUT, they do understand that my dd is the important one in all of his shenanigans - and she like to see him etc etc!
His brother managed to get him his current job, for my benefit, and then gave me all the relevant details for the csa... some nrp's have lovely familys, in my case his family (who all have nothing to do with him anymore except the one brother) are his saving grace if you like! They have been loving, caring and on my side the whole time he's been acting like the p**** he is!! He has sisters who have set him up in flats before, so that he would have a nice place to have our dd to visit and just because they used to believe blood was thicker etc etc... but over and over again he threw it back in their faces. None of them has anything to do with him anymore.

Years ago (2001) i was advised by the csa to report him for working cash in hand... i didn't then, and still don't believe that forcing a pwc to 'grass' (for want of a better word) on her ex in order to get him to pay maintenance is a good idea! I've so far been proved right cos now dd is 11 she really is starting to see him for the weak-willed lilly livered shirker he really is.... all without a word from me!!

Anyway, my reasons for returning some of the money is that I am better off with some of it, rather than chasing him round for none of it! Despite what other posters have written I totally accept that for 7/8 years I did not ask for maintenance... so unless he was very well off, I don't see how that could ever be fair?!

My original question was if he could ask the csa to stop the DEO - which seemingly he can't... (opinion on this forum and from other friends who have dealt with csa before - not concrete fact though!) I'm happy to return some of the money - But I don't want csa to know. While I understand thats its 'my' money after it has been paid over; I don't want him to be able to apply for a reduction etc and use the fact that I return some of it as 'evidence' that he is paying too much, if you get my drift?! Maybe, maybe not! But its just my way of sorting things out... and for now its working!

many thanks to you all for replying!:beer:

eezyrider7

sarahk100574 wrote: »

My original question was if he could ask the csa to stop the DEO - which seemingly he can't... (opinion on this forum and from other friends who have dealt with csa before - not concrete fact though!)
many thanks to you all for replying!:beer:

Concrete fact - the NRP has no power to dictate the Method of Payment (MOP).

HTH

EZ

DUTR

eezyrider7 wrote: »

Concrete fact - the NRP has no power to dictate the Method of Payment (MOP).

HTH

EZ

Concrete fact? Well it's on a weak foundation, many of us pay by Standing Order, no need for DEO's in our cases :A

DUTR

sarahk100574 wrote: »

Hi,

Its an old csa1 case, with years of arrears so the same % amounts etc don't apply!
But its not the amounts I'm questioning. Its if the NRP has the control to 'call off' the DEO at any time? Its just that he is only paying because it is being removed from his wages at source.
Now, I'm happy to hand back some of the money to him (which is another story altogether lol) but I suppose I am looking for reassurances that while he is in his current job, he cant have the DEO removed once in place?
If he can say to them after a few months "look, i'm paying regularly , let me pay you off my own back each month instead of DEO..." and CSA say "ok Mr NRP that will be fine seeing as we've had you on DEO for x amount of time" - could this happen? or, could he say to them "look, she's giving me some of this back so she obviously doesn't need it to start with" and could they say, "oh yes Mr NRP, as she is such a nice girl and giving you back (say) £70pw, then we will only deduct a lesser amount from now on!" - or does it not work like that?!

many thanks for responding!
:T

As others have mentioned , the DEO is only valid for his current employer, if he quits the employer then the DEO application process starts again if/when he gets a new employer.
I don't know how re-imbursing him came into your conversation, I can only guess, but you are free to give him money as you wish, is he going to accept any back though?

kevin137

If you are so concerned that he may well quit his job unless you give him money back then i would say that is tantamount to blackmail...!

Try a different tact...!!!

Tell him you will ask the CSA to reduce the amount of arrears he has to pay, and spread it over a longer period, and explain that the money is a debt to supporting his child which has meant you and her have gone without as YOU have had to support your child on your own...!

By returning the money to him, you are effectively wiping the debt he owes to his child, which is NOT your choice to make...!

The CSA may well on your request reduce the arrears payable at the rate payable, but he would still have to clear the debt in the long run, but with more time...!

Hope that helps as a solution...

sarahk100574

" Kevin137 -By returning the money to him, you are effectively wiping the debt he owes to his child, which is NOT your choice to make...!"


....Sorry, but I beg to differ! What I choose to do with my money is up to me!! my daughter has never gone without, and never will.... and that is down to me, and my ex husband, working hard to provide... not her father!!

I am now receiving maintenance after 10 years of him shirking his responsabilities... what i choose to do with it is up to me imo! i just wondered if the csa may let him shirk his responsbilities once more by letting him choose to not pay via deo!

He is an idiot of the highest proportions, he ducks responsability for everything in his life, not just his daughter.... BUT, my dd loves him, he is her dad! I've always made sure she has as best a relationship with him as possible... for HER sake... This is all also for her sake... when two parents fall out and there is nastiness, I believe that it is the child that will suffer most! So, to this end, I choose to let the lying scheming scumbag be a big a part of her/our life as he can be bothered with...

As far as he is concerned I think that "there is no point arguing with an idiot - they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience...."!!

11 years ago, I made a decision that I would take the 'moral high road'... and i still feel I made the right choice! My conscience is clear, my dd is a happy well rounded littler girl and thats what matters most!

I wouldn't want her to look back one day and think that i took her dad to the cleaners.....:eek:

kevin137

Just so we are clear on this, it may well be YOUR money, but it IS/WAS for the care of your daughter...! How about putting the money into an account for her to do extended studies such as University if you don't want the money...!

And while you may think i am having a go, what i am actually suggesting is a solution that would still involve him paying and facing his responsibilities without you letting him off the hook...!