Incensed again

julieq

Just quickly, possibly the issue of £8k to £22K hinges on the words "lump sum"? Without seeing the workings and knowing the details it's impossible to be certain, but usually the "lump sum" is not the pension, it's a tax free cash payment at the start of the pension period which you can often take in lieu of some benefits. You do also get a monthly payment as well.

For heaven's sake, if you're a public sector worker on final salary or career average considering shifting out to a private pension, get proper advice, not union advice. It seems that there is a deliberate misinformation campaign here and even after the proposed changes you'll likely be getting a stupendously good deal - there probably are some cases where this isn't true, but they'll be few and far between. By all means strike to try and keep what you've got if you feel it'll help, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face for an extra £50 a month or whatever it is in contributions.

It's worth pointing out also that private pensions come from profits of private companies by and large - profits don't go into the pockets of "fat cats", they go to pension funds. Every pound of increased taxation on profit means that the private sector are less able to use it to pay pensions, and a lot of the calls for higher corporate taxation are also calls for reduced private pensions in effect. So there's a double squeeze on private sector pensions, and ultimately there is a strong fairness issue around asking the public sector to contribute more directly to their own pensions. Honestly, it's a brilliant deal.

afc80

Bigsmak wrote: »

My Girlfriend is a Teacher. She had a Union rep come to her school last year actively encouraging them to strike. She was told that she would be better off stopping paying into the teachers scheme and taking out a private pension instead.

OMFG... I read the propaganda that the union rep had left them. It made me very very angry to the crap that people are being told in order to make decisions on one of the most important things in their lives.


My advice to the public sector workers... Find out the real facts. Stop believing everything your union says.

Be Honest mate.

You made that post up.

Total Jackanory :rotfl:


As for the love in for that mad witch Thatcher, she decimated the manufacturing base of the UK and sowed the seeds for the deregualted mess that got the UK into the !!!!!!. Take a lesson from Germany as to how to run an economy, and Oh the mad witch funded all her tax cuts from raping Scottish oil fields.

That is going to be stopping soon as well, You English will most definitely not be able to afford pensions of any sort when we say bye bye to the UK



These public sector pensions are fantastic and will still be good if and when they are changed. That is why the unions are fighting to keep them as unchanged as possible.

And this weak Govt. will make further concessions.

You can hardly blame the unions for fighting to keep such good pensions. If I is was a union member if would expect nothing less.

longleggedhair

afc80 wrote: »

Be Honest mate.

You made that post up.

Total Jackanory :rotfl:


As for the love in for that mad witch Thatcher, she decimated the manufacturing base of the UK and sowed the seeds for the deregualted mess that got the UK into the !!!!!!. Take a lesson from Germany as to how to run an economy, and Oh the mad witch funded all her tax cuts from raping Scottish oil fields.

That is going to be stopping soon as well, You English will most definitely not be able to afford pensions of any sort when we say bye bye to the UK



These public sector pensions are fantastic and will still be good if and when they are changed. That is why the unions are fighting to keep them as unchanged as possible.

And this weak Govt. will make further concessions.

You can hardly blame the unions for fighting to keep such good pensions. If I is was a union member if would expect nothing less.

Wow who would believe such deluded fools exist since the demise of Dennis Healey :rotfl:

As for Scotland I really really do hope you get your independance....why should English taxpayers fund all of your perks. Maybe Scotland can take its independance and form a new political union with.... maybe Greece???

lidlest

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

Been listening to the news again today, re the new offer to avert any further upset due to public sector kicking off due to pension issues.

A couple of figures hit me. They referred to the pension that a public service worker would recieve under the new offer.

A teacher earning £35K would get £25k pension

A nurse earning £30k would get £20k

What the f888????????????

Under the old pension scheme (2007) a teacher on £35k would have to work for about 57 years to get a £25000 pension (good luck with that lol).

Under the new scheme a teacher would have to work 44 years... slightly more reasonable i hear you say. Good luck having all those grannys in the classroom.

Yes we have a good pension scheme but please don't forget that the pension scheme was already overhauled to make it sustainable (i.e it pays for itself). The government has not put money paid by teachers into a pension plan it has just sucked it up, and when there was a surplus you didn't see them offering to give it back.

Please use some common sense and realise that this public Vs private conflict that the govt has deftly set in motion is nothing but a way to get us to stop looking at where the big jobs are wasting money, where the banks are bankrupting us and where little people scream at each other instead of at the people really taking the pi$$.

afc80

longleggedhair wrote: »

Wow who would believe such deluded fools exist since the demise of Dennis Healey :rotfl:

As for Scotland I really really do hope you get your independance....why should English taxpayers fund all of your perks. Maybe Scotland can take its independance and form a new political union with.... maybe Greece???

with all due respect Nigel, when Scotland stops subsidsing you, you will have to go cap in hand to the Germans or the Chinese.

You have a basket case economy and i fear for the social fabric of your country when we leave.

Oh, and im a right wing Scot, Mad Thatch was an English nationalist who financed everything on the back of Scottish natural resources.

Hate the woman.

dshart

julieq wrote: »

It's worth pointing out also that private pensions come from profits of private companies by and large - profits don't go into the pockets of "fat cats", they go to pension funds. Every pound of increased taxation on profit means that the private sector are less able to use it to pay pensions, and a lot of the calls for higher corporate taxation are also calls for reduced private pensions in effect. So there's a double squeeze on private sector pensions, and ultimately there is a strong fairness issue around asking the public sector to contribute more directly to their own pensions. Honestly, it's a brilliant deal.

There are very few private company final salary schemes left, most companies have closed these to new employees and have found ways where possible to get out of their obligations to existing employees. These schemes are just too expensive for the companies to run, just as the public sector ones are for the country and this is why it needs to be changed.

Majority of private sector workers pensions are private pensions funded with their own money and with the minimum amount of employers contributions allowed by law. There may be some generous ones still out there but these are few and far between and are usually limited to top executives in corporations and not the general workforce.

longleggedhair

afc80 wrote: »

with all due respect Nigel, when Scotland stops subsidsing you, you will have to go cap in hand to the Germans or the Chinese.

You have a basket case economy and i fear for the social fabric of your country when we leave.

Oh, and im a right wing Scot, Mad Thatch was an English nationalist who financed everything on the back of Scottish natural resources.

Hate the woman.

Scotland stops subsidising England? Are you for real? The government subsidises the Scottish economy to the tune of millions!

The English dont want Scotland and you dont want to be a part of the UK, so why not do us all a favour and leave asap. As for Scottish oil fields, I think you will find North Sea oil/gas has largely gone, hence why we are now buing our fuel in the large part from abroard. But I do hope you listen to Alex Salmond and take your independance, I think you will find it is the Scottish who will come out with the begging bowl (yet again) sooner rather than later.

afc80

You are obviously a daily mail reader. Oil will be extracted from the North Sea for a further 50 years. Companies in the North East of Scotland are also all over the world.

Dont you realise that Osborne is taxing the north sea to the tune of 10 billion pounds over the next few years. Where the hell are you going to make up that shortfall?. We will also be using our natural resources on 5 million people (Scotland) rather than the 60 million and growing by the day UK.

The extent to which Scotland has subsided the English has just recently been brought into the public domain (successive English Govts and Labour Scottish Quislings suppressed this information from the 1970s onwards) and i hate to tell you this, but Scotland would be as rich per head of capita as the likes of Norway.

What is left of the UK will go further downhill, i think the current UK is already behind Eire and that is with Scotland bankrolling the UK

http://scotlandunspun.blogspot.com/2011/06/cost-of-union-to-every-scot-2-413-each.html
http://scotlandunspun.blogspot.com/2011/06/gers-report-shows-scotland-subsidises.html

longleggedhair

afc80 wrote: »

You are obviously a daily mail reader. Oil will be extracted from the North Sea for a further 50 years. Companies in the North East of Scotland are also all over the world.

Dont you realised that Osborne is taxing the north sea to the tune of 10 billion pounds over the next few years. Where the hell are you going to make up that shortfall?

The extent to which Scotland has subsided the English has just recently been brought into the public domain (successive English Govts and Labour Scottish Quislings suppressed this information) and i hate to tell you this, but Scotland would be as rich per head of capita as the likes of Norway.

What is left of the UK will go further downhill, i think the current UK is already behind Eire and that is with Scotland bankrolling the UK


http://scotlandunspun.blogspot.com/2011/06/gers-report-shows-scotland-subsidises.html

:rotfl:As I said before im all for Scottish Independance. Just one question for you. Alex Salmond and the SNP are in power and even they did not expect to be. He could call a referendum tomorrow, but he says not until 2014. Why not? Because he knows Scotland would not last five minutes on its own two feet. He now says he is happy to consider a "third" route, by staying within the union but have more Scottish autonomy...how very convienant! Scotland can p**s off and take its hoard of Labour MP's with it.

afc80

It was in his election manifesto (the date for the referendum), and yes it is going to be close. We will go when we think we can win.

The media in Scotland is almost universally Labour and unionist.

Labour hacks masquerading as journalists are all over the odious BBC spinning scare stories and the print media are also in the hands of these people.

Even with all the anti Scottish propaganda independence will come, it is a matter of time.

I beg just one thing, please don't send Nicky Campbell, Lorraine Kelly, Gordon Brown and Andrew Neil back to us?

One other thing, I have many friends who are English, Aberdeen is full of English due to the wealth of the area, even they vote for Alex Salmond.

and finally if the Scots are being subsidised (we are not), why are Dave and George not all for Scottish independence?

Permanent tory rule and more money for the home counties? Easy one for Dave and George, surely?