Landlady demanding a brand new door, what are my rights?

silk_2

Hi all,

I know that sometimes there are two sides to a story. But I'm going to be completely fatcual and try to refrain from being emotionally biased. We're renting a property and have permission for two dogs.

• 3-4 months ago we asked permission to install a dog flag on the rear UPVC door. We explained in finite detail how this would be done and by whom (a professional fitter).
• The lower UPVC panel would be removed, and the flap fitted into it, then the panel placed back into the door.
• When we end tennancy a brand new UPVC panel will be put into the door to replace the old one.
• We were given oral permission and went ahead and did it.
• Since then no paperwork has been signed, and 2-3 weeks ago the landlady had changed her mind about the whole thing with no explanation.
• We explained to the EA we had already done it but could swap the panels around now if really required; though our preference is to do it at the end of tennacy as the dogs would only scratch the new panel in absence of a flap, thus actually damaging the door.

I have photos of the door before any of this was done. The door itself is not touched or damaged in any way as part of the panel swapping process.

• The landlady isn't happy with this, and has now demanded we put a new door in.
• What I don't know is what kind of information the EA has been relaying to her, because if she'd been told the facts she would know there is no damage!

I'd basically like to know where we stand. My thoughts are:

• Unless they can prove we've physically damaged the door, she can't ask us to do this.
• We should put the new panel back at the end of tennacy and see what happens, like I said, I have photographic evidence if it comes to it.
• Or, if forced to prove there is no damage right now, put the panel back now in order to "prove" there is no damage. But then that puts us in a no win situation because the dogs could damage the new panel in absence of the door flap they are used to.
• The door will be in a better condition when we move out than it was when we moved in!
• She's asking for a new door, but hers wasn't new?!

Any thoughts on this? I'd like to add we're good tennants, agreed to a rent increase without hassle recently, looking after the house well, paying on time, and even went onto a rolling contract for *her* benefit recently because she is unsure about job security. We could have done a 6 months contract instead.

ognum

As you say there are two sides to every story! From what you have written it is hard to see that you have done anything wrong except perhaps you should have got permission in writing before starting the work

silk_2

ognum wrote: »

As you say there are two sides to every story! From what you have written it is hard to see that you have done anything wrong except perhaps you should have got permission in writing before starting the work

Yes that is the only thing we have done wrong as far as I see; and it was done because, I admit, 3 months after asking for the paperwork we grew impatient and thought.. "well.. we have oral agreement and what we are doing isn't permanent and can be reversed". I feel we haven't really done anything else wrong hence my disclaimer.. sometimes people are sceptical you know.

But isn't so much as "am I in the wrong" as "what are my rights". I need to know what to do regarding the door; do I *have* to put it back now or can I wait until we move out and hopefully they can't say it's damaged (I don't see how they can, we'll be getting a professional back out to fit the new panel).

mkaibear

She can't insist that you swap the panel back to the old one. It is your house whilst you are renting it and you had permission to make the change (admittedly not in writing) - as long as you return the house to her in the same condition you found it. You don't have to provide a new door, that would be "betterment", but replacing the panel sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

She can however give you your notice, without any reason.

Do you have the LL's details? I would write to her directly, bypassing the EA, and let her know what the EA is telling you. They may have made an error somewhere and are trying to cover it up.

Provide photos, let her know that the door is fine and the panel will be replaced at the end of the tenancy, restoring the door to a better condition than it was at the start.

silk_2

mkaibear wrote: »

She can however give you your notice, without any reason.

Do you have the LL's details? I would write to her directly, bypassing the EA, and let her know what the EA is telling you. They may have made an error somewhere and are trying to cover it up.

Provide photos, let her know that the door is fine and the panel will be replaced at the end of the tenancy, restoring the door to a better condition than it was at the start.

I have offered via the EA to send photos but the EA has not really taken me up on the offer.

I wish I did have her details, I can't help but feel this is all being terribly mis-communicated, because I met the LL in person and can't picture her being this unreasonable! I want to reassure her all is well as I feel the EA is messing up terribly..

That said I only came here to double check I am "ok" to leave it for now and sort at the end of tenancy, so far it sounds like it. In the meantime we are on the lookout for a new home though we'd rather not move.

Oh yeah, I have replied to the EA in the meantime, and it's under the assumption that the LL really is being the unreasonalbe one and it's not the EA messing up (I don't know how I am to know either way to be honest):

Hi xxxx

I think she's being very unreasonable but I'll do two things,

1, I'll put the door back as it was with a BRAND NEW panel
2, I'll take a photo of it with the BRAND NEW panel

I have photos of before the door was touched as well. I will let her compare the two.

The new panel will put the door in better condition than it was, not worse. If she still disputes this we can discuss further?

I think what has happened here is the landlady does not realise that a UPVC door is split into panels, and they are BY DESIGN removable and to ask to replace a whole door after one component is swapped to a newer version of itself is.. well, there are no polite words. It would be like saying you want a brand new car because someone replaced a dented car door with a new car door.

Also may I remind you that we had verbal agreement on this, which unless you dispute means we are in the right!

I'd like you to word for word read what I have said to the landlady, particularly the part about the design of the door; which isn't something I've come up with out of the blue, it's something the professional service fitter I had over, said. Four flaps open up, panel comes out, new one pops in; I saw him do it! The doors are built that way. There was no chopping, hacking or otherwise damaging the door itself.

She seems to be under the impression we've somehow damaged it, which is far, far from the truth, and I need you to get this point across quite clearly because this is frankly getting blown MASSIVELY out of proportion.

I want this telling to her asap, as you can imgagine I don't need the stress of it on my mind.

If she really won't listen to reason then with the oral agreement and photographic evidence, I'd love to know how she wants to make us buy another door. By contract it can only be done if damaged. I'll put the panel on, you can send someone over, and only then if you can say the door is "damaged" then would we legally have to do any such thing.

BitterAndTwisted

It sounds to me like the landlady doesn't understand that the whole panel has been replaced and you can get the old one put back in when you leave with no discernible damage. Under the circumstances I would put all this in writing and invite the LL to come round and inspect it and assure her that you fully intend to leave the door in the same condition as it was at the start of your tenancy. She can't insist that you replace the door in the middle of your tenancy but I cant think of a tactful way of telling her this.

silk_2

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

It sounds to me like the landlady doesn't understand that the whole panel has been replaced and you can get the old one put back in when you leave with no discernible damage. Under the circumstances I would put all this in writing and invite the LL to come round and inspect it and assure her that you fully intend to leave the door in the same condition as it was at the start of your tenancy. She can't insist that you replace the door in the middle of your tenancy but I cant think of a tactful way of telling her this.

If I had her contact details I would have already explained it all to her and sent pics.

I guess I can email the EA and ask them to forward it to her, but no guarantee they will?

hazyjo

I understand it can invalidate insurance (so I'm led to believe) unless it goes into another room which is lockable (ie a locked door into another room internally).

Maybe that's her reasoning...? Should really tell you though. Maybe not wanting to cause any panic or involve any other parties such as the insurance co.

Jx

silk_2

hazyjo wrote: »

I understand it can invalidate insurance (so I'm led to believe) unless it goes into another room which is lockable (ie a locked door into another room internally).

Maybe that's her reasoning...? Should really tell you though. Maybe not wanting to cause any panic or involve any other parties such as the insurance co.

Jx

Yeah and if it was something that simple I could put it to rest right away because the flap can be locked shut, and we keep it locked during the working day.

It's times like this EA's just get in the way and cause stress rather than helping matters.

hazyjo

Not sure it makes a difference with it being locked or not, just the fact that it's there. You'd have to look into that. I can kind of see why she'd not want to give the EA a reason if that is the case. She just wants it put back to normal asap without admitting to anyone it was ever there.

If it's nowt to do with the insurance and is just being difficult, she sounds a bit of a nightmare

Jx

InkZ

From reading other stuff on here, I'm pretty sure you should have a copy of the land ladys details on your contract and if not, request them. Write to her in person and explain it will be put back at the end of your tenancy and not before.