Talk Talk direct debit

mcscoty1973

Hello apologies if this is not the correct forum, but as it was to do with direct debit I thought this was suitable place.

I have just transferred to Plus.net from talk talk and today I was looking through my bank account and saw talk talk had charged me £145, I thougth this was odd as I had not had the usual email advising me to go and check my account because the bill was ready.

On looking into the account they have charged me for contract breakage. I was not aware I was actually in a contract, but it turns out in march I got a phone call about a special offer to which I said to the operator "Okay go ahead providing I recieve full information in the post before it begins" I never recieved any information in the post and just assumed this never went ahead.

Little did I know this was not the case. On looking at old bills, there is no indication on these that I was in a new contract, or when the contract would end, even looking in my account it does not give you this information at all, so I was totally blind. I chose to let plus.net handle Talk talk and they did that well, but talk talk sent me a letter advising that I was being transferred and if it was wrong to contact them. They never actually mentioned I was already in a contract and if I left I would be charged £145, the first I knew of it was when I saw the direct debit on the bank account.

My question is this, can they get away with doing this? Are they breaking the direct debit guarantee by not sending the usual email saying my bill was ready for viewing? I think if they did that then I could say it was my fault, but they didn't and I just assumed I would get a normal final bill in the post.

I normally chose to cancel the final direct debit and wait til they write to me, but this time I left it, I am regretting it now.

Any advice please.

NFH

Inform your bank immediately that the amount is not due and that you did not receive the required 10 working days' notice under the Direct Debit Guarantee. Your bank is obliged to give you an immediate refund. TalkTalk may then try to get the money from you another way, and will presumably fail.

When I used TalkTalk, they persistently failed to give the required 10 working days' notice each month before taking the money. Instead they sent backdated bills every month, with 14 calendar days' notice calculated from the backdated bill date instead of 10 working days' notice calculated from the notification date. Eventually I cancelled the direct debit and insisted on payment by credit card without a surcharge.

mcscoty1973

Hi NFH

I took your advise and called my bank (Santander) who I am pleasantly surprised, now have a UK call centre so it was very easy to work with.

I now have the money back in my account and they have cancelled the direct debit and will raise a complaint with Talk Talk.

I am going to now wait unti talk talk get back to me (if they ever do) and then pay them what I owe, except the contract breakage fee by cheque.

Any advise on distant selling regulations? I had a quick read and from what I understand they are supposed to write to you with contract information, within 3 months, but talk talk have never done this, do you think this applies to utilities like talk talk?

If I had documents that showed I was in conract I would never have left them, but they never gave me any information to go on, which I think is out of order, and sneaky.

NFH

mcscoty1973 wrote: »

Any advise on distant selling regulations? I had a quick read and from what I understand they are supposed to write to you with contract information, within 3 months, but talk talk have never done this, do you think this applies to utilities like talk talk?

Yes, see Section 7(1)(a)(ix) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 which states that "the supplier shall provide to the consumer the following information — where appropriate, the minimum duration of the contract, in the case of contracts for the supply of goods or services to be performed permanently or recurrently". It's not within three months but before the contract starts. Quote this at TalkTalk and they'll no doubt have trouble producing a copy of any communication where this information was conveyed.

Mikeyorks

mcscoty1973 wrote: »

...... they have cancelled the direct debit and will raise a complaint with Talk Talk.

No - your Bank are now out of pocket and will raise a DD Indemnity claim with Talk Talk's Bank in order to get the money back. It's not a complaint.

Whoever Talk Talk bank with will contact one of the Talk Talk DD indemnifiers. They will either agree the refund or say they are in the right and decline it. In the latter case that will be signalled back to your Bank and the money will be debited from your account again.

In most unclear cases the indemnifiers tend to agree refunds and then take it up directly with the (ex) customer.

mcscoty1973

Thanks NFH this could be useful, but it does not say it has to be in writing, so they could try and get away with saying this was stated in the telephone call. Even thought I specifically stated in this call that I only agree providing full details are sent to me and I can cancell if I dont like it, to which I was told I would of course recieve them in the post, and I had 7 or 14 days to cancel. I have had this before from Talk Talk and as that one never materialized, I had no reason to think this one was any diffrent.

NFH wrote: »

Yes, see Section 7(1)(a)(ix) of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 which states that "the supplier shall provide to the consumer the following information — where appropriate, the minimum duration of the contract, in the case of contracts for the supply of goods or services to be performed permanently or recurrently". It's not within three months but before the contract starts. Quote this at TalkTalk and they'll no doubt have trouble producing a copy of any communication where this information was conveyed.

mcscoty1973

Yes mike you are indeed correct about the indemnity raised by my bank. Hopefully they are not able to just deny it because I never recieved any notification about the charge being made like I had in every other month I was a Talk Talk customer (they always sent an email) therefore I assume they are in breach of the direct debit guarantee.

Mikeyorks wrote: »

No - your Bank are now out of pocket and will raise a DD Indemnity claim with Talk Talk's Bank in order to get the money back. It's not a complaint.

Whoever Talk Talk bank with will contact one of the Talk Talk DD indemnifiers. They will either agree the refund or say they are in the right and decline it. In the latter case that will be signalled back to your Bank and the money will be debited from your account again.

In most unclear cases the indemnifiers tend to agree refunds and then take it up directly with the (ex) customer.

NFH

mcscoty1973 wrote: »

Thanks NFH this could be useful, but it does not say it has to be in writing, so they could try and get away with saying this was stated in the telephone call.

They record the phone calls, but in my experience seem unable to recover the recordings when they need to. If you think they didn't tell you the minimum term and you know this is something important that you would have remembered, then the chances are that they didn't tell you, and in any case they probably won't be able to produce evidence of the communication.

mcscoty1973

Well if they can't provide any recorded phone call then surely they have no proof and have to conceed they are in the wrong. I am sure this isn't really what will happen, but I can't see any other way for it, unless they have a signature on a sheet of paper which they dont.

NFH wrote: »

They record the phone calls, but in my experience seem unable to recover the recordings when they need to. If you think they didn't tell you the minimum term and you know this is something important that you would have remembered, then the chances are that they didn't tell you, and in any case they probably won't be able to produce evidence of the communication.

NFH

mcscoty1973 wrote: »

Well if they can't provide any recorded phone call then surely they have no proof and have to conceed they are in the wrong. I am sure this isn't really what will happen, but I can't see any other way for it, unless they have a signature on a sheet of paper which they dont.

I wouldn't worry. They are one of the most disorganised and inefficient companies I've ever dealt with. If you're sure you weren't informed of any minimum contract period, then you're probably right.

System

You agreed to a change to your contract during a phone call.
What changes did you agree to ?

Yes TalkTalk may have failed to send a confirmation letter, but that may not help if....
When you received subsequent bills, were the additional services shown on the bill ?

If the changed services were not shown on your bill or on your online account, then you may have grounds for complaint, you would need to follow the TalkTalk complaints process which can be found on their website.

However, if you agree to something verbally, that is a contract (the phone call recording will detail what you agreed to) and if the changes to your account were shown online then you may have to pay the exit fee. You should always speak to your current provider before setting up a contract elsewhere, then they would have advised you of potential charges.

Cancelling the D/D or asking the bank to refund the payment does not cancel the payment and TalkTalk will most likely get debt collectors to chase you for the payment. If you submit an official complaint using the TalkTalk process, that should pause their action to recover the debt from you.