The Most Selfish Generation in History and the Debt Trap

Going4TheDream

Niv wrote: »

Fair enough opinion again I dont entirely disagree. Now where do you draw the line? Quite often I see it reported that we dont have enough scientists (I mean proper ones i.e chemists, physics, Biologists). So do we pay for them too? Then what about those that do say environmental science that too? You see where I am going, there is no black and white line so it becomes blurred and we end up with the system we have today.


Niv

Perhaps by future forecasting growth industries and looking at where they believe there will be a shortfall for good calibre qualified people perhaps - then offer free tuition for those fields for a time period prior? As new industries emerge then it would stand to reason that the courses of offer for free would change?

You see already how we import people with certain skills from outside the EU and allow them to work here as we have the skill shortage, why not encourage our own kids to learn the skills, in return they get free education....?

How you stop the brain drain once they have the qualification is a different matter, but I am sure they could introduce something that says providing you stay and work for a certain time here and 'payback' through work in this country then it doesnt seem an unworkable solution???

ruggedtoast

Cleaver wrote: »

This 'there's no jobs outside of London stuff' makes me chuckle. I fully understand that there's a few niche industries where you probably do need to work in London. But, and keep this quiet, I have heard of some places like Leeds, Bristol, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Norwich, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield, Cardiff, Newcastle and Belfast that... and whisper this... aren't just backwater hamlets with a pub and signpost anymore. They have real industries and stuff that them there posh folk in London have, like cafes and wi-fi. Why, I even saw someone in Leeds recently talking on some sort of mobile telephonic device. These places are up and coming I tells ya.

But seriously, all these cities and towns have 'economic activity'. Lots of it in fact. The days of having to be in London to work, for most people in most industries and sectors, are over. If indeed they ever even existed.

Most of the jobs, money, and career opportunities are in London. If you want to start off in your career you are going to have more luck on London than Leeds.

I dont work in London anymore (thank God) but I "beat" about 50 local people for my job precisely because I had London experience and they didnt.

If people start leaving London en masse because they cant afford to live there anymore they will take other peoples jobs. Careful, they might be after yours.

Going4TheDream

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Most of the jobs, money, and career opportunities are in London. If you want to start off in your career you are going to have more luck on London than Leeds.

I dont work in London anymore (thank God) but I "beat" about 50 local people for my job precisely because I had London experience and they didnt.

If people start leaving London en masse because they cant afford to live there anymore they will take other peoples jobs. Careful, they might be after yours.

'London experience' or just experience..... ?

CLAPTON

Going4TheDream wrote: »

Perhaps by future forecasting growth industries and looking at where they believe there will be a shortfall for good calibre qualified people perhaps - then offer free tuition for those fields for a time period prior? As new industries emerge then it would stand to reason that the courses of offer for free would change?

You see already how we import people with certain skills from outside the EU and allow them to work here as we have the skill shortage, why not encourage our own kids to learn the skills, in return they get free education....?

How you stop the brain drain once they have the qualification is a different matter, but I am sure they could introduce something that says providing you stay and work for a certain time here and 'payback' through work in this country then it doesnt seem an unworkable solution???

the thought of civil servants guessing what industries will be 'successful' in the future is pretty laughable

parents, who typically work in real businesses/industies will have far better insight into the likely successes and are in a much better placed to advise their children

we have no shortage of excellent university trained scientists, engineers, mathematicians etc
basically, relatively few actually go into science and ehgineering because the jobs are relatively poorly paid.

that's the employers view
so whenever you hear CEOs etc complaining about lack of such people ask them what they actually pay compared to their accountants etc.
RR pay their general management new grduates more than they pay their engineering graduates

most of the high calibre overseas people recruitment here is fraudulent

Cleaver

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I dont work in London anymore (thank God) but I "beat" about 50 local people for my job precisely because I had London experience and they didnt.

What on earth is 'London experience'? I've never heard of a company employing someone on the basis that they've worked in a certain city or town.

ruggedtoast wrote: »

If people start leaving London en masse because they cant afford to live there anymore they will take other peoples jobs. Careful, they might be after yours.

My job is based in mainly in London.

Cleaver

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Most of the jobs, money, and career opportunities are in London. If you want to start off in your career you are going to have more luck on London than Leeds.

I just disgree with this statement. Yes, there are some industries where I can see that living in London would be advantageous or even necessary. High finance perhaps, investment banking, certain jobs in the media, arts such as acting, singing, music etc. but I can't think of many else off the job of my head.

Firstly if you have a trade such as plumbing, hairdressing, building, engineering, plastering etc. etc. then you can work anywhere. If you qualify as a nurse, teacher, fire officer, social worker, police officer etc. etc. then you can work anywhere. If you have a professional qualification in accountancy or HR or something along those lines then you can work anywhere. If you want to set up your own company doing anything from training and development, to app creation, to gardening you can do it anywhere. I could go on and on.

I realise that a lot of companies are headquartered or operate solely out of London, so to climb the corporate ladder you'll need to move there. But this is rare, most people can have a perfectly decent career outside of London.

CLAPTON

Cleaver wrote: »

I just disgree with this statement. Yes, there are some industries where I can see that living in London would be advantageous or even necessary. High finance perhaps, investment banking, certain jobs in the media, arts such as acting, singing, music etc. but I can't think of many else off the job of my head.

Firstly if you have a trade such as plumbing, hairdressing, building, engineering, plastering etc. etc. then you can work anywhere. If you qualify as a nurse, teacher, fire officer, social worker, police officer etc. etc. then you can work anywhere. If you have a professional qualification in accountancy or HR or something along those lines then you can work anywhere. If you want to set up your own company doing anything from training and development, to app creation, to gardening you can do it anywhere. I could go on and on.

I realise that a lot of companies are headquartered or operate solely out of London, so to climb the corporate ladder you'll need to move there. But this is rare, most people can have a perfectly decent career outside of London.

it would seem that there is higher unemployment and lower incomes outside London

FTBFun

Road_Hog wrote: »

Where would you put a socialist on the political spectrum then?

Depends on what you mean by "socialist". It could mean a social democrat; a member of SWP; or a full on communist.

Going4TheDream

CLAPTON wrote: »

it would seem that there is higher unemployment and lower incomes outside London

Unemployment seems to be quite high in London compared to some regions?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/nov/17/unemployment-and-employment-statistics-economics

But I agree that salaries are lower outside London but then again so are houses, rents and living costs, so perhaps its all relative?

Cleaver

CLAPTON wrote: »

it would seem that there is higher unemployment and lower incomes outside London

I wouldn't disagree with that. I was simply refuting the claim that to have any sort of career advancement you need to move to London. Because you don't.